and tim naftali, the former director of the nixon presidential library. what an embarrassment of riches to have you both on today. norm, i want to begin with you here on this, because i'm trying in my mind, as most of america is probably doing to figure out this process of how these documents are supposed to be preserved. i mean, is it every document that a president touches or does he have some discretion as being, as we have called them, the loader of the free world, to decide what gets handed over? >> laura, thanks for having me. he's the leader of the free world, but he's not the world of free shredding. every scrap of paper has to be preserved. that was when i met with incoming president obama and incoming vice president joe biden. that was what i explained to them about the law. and that's why we know that white house staff would sometimes run around trying to piece together the scraps that were torn. obviously, we now learn that some things were beyond redemption. we know why that extremely strong water pressure was needed, laura, to flush away the

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let's break it down with former federal and state prosecutor elie honig and presidential historian tim naftali. the other part of trump's state today on top of what we heard ryan report out is that he claims that he had no legal obligation to be turning over these documents, including some of what has since been recovered from mar-a-lago. so i'm wondering what kind of legal trouble could he be in? >> it's incorrect to say there was no legal obligation to preserve these documents. where i would start the legal analysis is with something called the presidential records act. that says presidents have to maintain and keep all presidential records. now the problem is there's no consequence for that. it's a law with no teeth. there's no remedy for it. but depending on the intent and specificity, there could be potentially criminal laws involved in two respects. first of all, if there was intentional knowing destruction of classified documents, that's a federal crime. and if the intent was, let me get these documents taken out of the way because they could look bad. they could be damning for me in a