. >> have you since read tim o'brien's, the things they carried?, of course, yes. >> phil and i were talking about "the things they cared." i read that after i got out of the marine corps and in my 20s. it came out in '91, like while the gulf was war actually happening. and then i was just eating mres and listening -- tim's work is great. i want to ask phil about literature of war that kind of -- has mattered to him and also if you feel linkage between, say, tim o'brien or phil caputo or karl milante, if you feel like your book is following in line with some of those books and telling the same kinds of stories. >> there's a lot of books. i had a professor in college, a poet, fantastic poet, tom slays, who -- when he learned i was joining the marine corps, had me read, like, tolstoy and hemingway, to fill my head with a little bit of wisdom from some of the smartest people to write about war. the cannon of war writing is grim. i was reading, "the good soldier." the great world war 1 novel written by a czech anarchist. while i was writing one of the