tim o'brien joins me now. and you can read that on the bloomberg. m: i saw the tax returns and i survived. if i say anything about what i saw in those returns, the world will explode. so i have to be somewhat cautious about it. i did see them as part of the litigation. contrary to what donald has set about what the public can learn from them, there is a lot of interest in them. vonnie: i love the part, which is most of your commentary actually about debt and how there is so much focus on debt and donald trump and how he loves debt, but he does not have that a lot expensive sicily with the debt. that was in the context of the flip-flopping he has done in the last week about how he would take on the national debt and how he would manage $19 trillion in debt. he has referred to himself debt,edly as the king of essentially saying that, based on his long history of that grosses and other problems managing debt, he would be a great steward of the national debt. he then proceeded to freak out the bond market. debt, essentially saying that, based -- theax re

tim o'brien joins us now.robably one of the only people i know of who has seen some of donald trump's tax returns. i know you can't discuss what was in them because of this lawsuit but why not release them if you're donald trump? because legally there's nothing about because you're being audited and you can't release them. >> exactly. the issue of there being a an audit, preventing and releasing returns is just a head herring, anderson. the reason he doesn't want it release them is because it goes to some very sail yent issues around his candidacy and i think his track record as a business person. the returns aren't going to substantiate anything about his net worth as a hole but it will demonstrate how much incomes he earns from his businesses. he has put out his success as a business person, the amount of money he made as a business person as hall marks for benchmarks of of his sultbility to be the chief executive of the united states. on top of that, there's other issues in the returns that matter. specific

joining me now is tim o'brien. executor of blood countberg vmb. >> why should we see these?ch income he has, how robust his businesses actually are, he campaigned on tnotion t he is a great business person. the taxes would give you a window into his income. they would give you a window on to his charitable giving. he has made his support for war veterans, one of the emblematic statements he makes at his campaign appearances but there hasn't been a lot of evidence that he is a back yesser of war veterans we would get a window on to where his own investments reside and then i think last and probably foremost, this is a 40 year tradition and american voters should be able to see what potential financial or business pressures will come to bear on whoever okccupies the white house. >> his record is his business record and as far as i can tell, that business record is completely shrouded in secrecy. there are four bankruptcies, corporate and one personal. >> he has been a successful self promoter and that should be seen as something quite apart from being a successful businessman.

an important interview with tim o'brien on mr. from. coming up, one of our scenes of we.ck and all -- shock and a robert mellman with an exceptional note. ♪ francine: tom keene in new york. let's get to the bloomberg business flash. a recordoogle facing antitrust fine. is european commission planning to find google $3.4 billion. google will be banned from manipulating search results to favor itself. norway's sovereign wealth fund wants to join a class action suit against volkswagen involving the fake emissions test. tosays it is acting safeguard its --. initialnsidering an public offering. the timing will depend on how its battle with uber plays out. that is our latest in business flash. isncine: the brexit debate long ranging. sam is our london business chief. great to have you on the program. we had an eventful weekend. thate two months away from referendum. mark carney came out with comments saying be careful because brexit has an impact. pro-brexitersd by . this is a quote saying look, if we are going to answer the other policy,nts

tim o'brien, said that mr.boosted his income in hisdocuments by conflating various businesses' revenue with his personal income. trump did not- respond to the assessment, but can cleared up by releasing his tax returns. a brilliant column in "the new york times" on the minutia of the tax returns. transparency is what this is all about. should it become a normal, routine thing that you show your tax return? expected that from our political leaders. -- we havee expected that. we have a legitimate right to know that income is reported accurately and taxes paid appropriately. tom: mr. o'brien wrote a book about mr. trump and all of the shenanigans, pro and con. killing himself trying to be fair. bankruptcy asused a tool, which is a unique feature in our american economics. has donald trump cleared markets? not know his particular financing arrangements in detail. i know having been associated with a high-yield markets that there has been troubles in bonds associated with trump businesses. bankruptcy is a useful thi

and trump's math has always been hard to verify says author tim o'brien.mp sued him kraming oclaimin low balled his net worth. the case was dismissed. >> he always has some humongous figure for goodwill and branding. he says the trump bland is worth a many billions and that's just donald sit being around eating a cheeseburger saying i'm worth x. >> reporter: trump claims a net worth in excess of $10 billion. forbes and wealth x put it closer to $4 billion. we reached out to the trump campaign, but didn't get a comments. short of an independent audit, all we really know for sure is this. >> i'm really rich. >> reporter: cnn money. >>> the u.s. president barack obama is scheduled to arrive in vietnam in about nine hours time. mr. obama left washington, d.c. on saturday. he will spend three days in vietnam. the trip is meant to promote trade ties and to counter china's agreeing assertiveness in that region. >>> 4:26 on the u.s. east coast. and still ahead, we continue to follow developments on the egyptair plane crash. a live report from paris from the airpor

. ♪ joining us now tim o'brien. he wrote the book " trump nation, the art of being the donald."xw donald returns as part of a lawsuit -- says he once saw donald trump's. tax reportno -- you are not at liberty to say what you saw in the returns but explain theoretically, big picture, one of the kinds of things you think the country with learn if they saw donald trump three turns? the column into four categories. one easy one is income. we will see whether or not the money he earns from his businesses comports with the statements he made probably about it. it is not get to his net worth. but it does give you a reflection of some of the foundations of his wealth, as well as the scope of his business operations. he has made a point in his campaign of saying the u.s. businesses are mistaken for operating their corporations overseas. that comes at the expense of the american worker. we know that trump sources some of the things for his businesses overseas. does he have investments of his own overseas? the would come out in personal and corporate tax returns he would turn over. cap cha

new york times" reporter that questioned his net worth, the reason he went after him is because tim o'brien questioned whether his net worth was close to a million dollars. a judge said he was untrustworthy to give financial information. then appellate court upheld that same sentiment, that donald trump's information was untrustworthy. this has been an issue for years. he doesn't want people to know what's in there. maybe he is not as wealthy as he says. maybe he has money hidden in tax shelters. there's all kinds of things could be in there. >> if you google donald trump not telling the truth about network, it comes up multiple times. he has been caught lying about it. it goes to the voracity of the candidate. >> particularly when he accused others of being liars, lying ted, over and over. here i would say he is dishonest how he moved the ball down the field. if numbers in the return are dishonest, that blows up a rhetoric of lying ted. >> he was critical of mitt romney for not doing this years ago when he wasn't running, and now seems to be walking that back. >> people are outside the fra

and trump's math has always been hard to verify, says author tim o'brien.ming that o'brien lowballed his net worth. the case was dismissed. >> any time he estimates his net worth, he adds in this humongous figure for goodwill and branding. he says the trump brand is worth x many billions. and that's just donald sitting around eating a cheeseburger saying i'm worth "x" billions of dollars. >> reporter: trump claims a net worth in >> keeping an eye on an event in florida, it is where hillary clinton is expected to speak out against donald trump, specifically his endorsement by the nra. stay with us. we're going to go there as soon as she takes the stage. customer service!d. ma'am. this isn't a computer... wait. you're real? with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s., like me, anytime. wow. this is a recording. really? no, i'm kidding. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell. (vo) making the most out of every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. >>> breaking news this hour, a

if you read trump nation by tim o'brien, or you look back over the forbes list, donald trump spent yearsg back and forth with forbes trying to get on their millionaire list, higher on the list and during that time his own estimates of his wealth fluctuated several billion. there might be shocker some exaggeration when it comes to estimating his wealth. >> also big questions about trump's campaign funding and a piece you wrote you say that trump could use new donations to pay himself back for the money he put out for the campaign but he said in a statement to msnbc has no plans to do so. legally, can he do that, pay himself back? >> he can. he has until august. any of these new donationings he said he is raising to pay himself back. though he talked about self funding in the primaries we crunched the numbers. 75% was structured as loans from him so the campaign right now owes him that money. the other 25% from small donations. i reported that story out yesterday basically saying they left the door open and late in the day you mentioned the statement, donald trump sent that statement to me

tim o'brien began writing "trump nation" in 2004 with donald trump's cooperation, and attempted to findt trump's net worth really was. >> when i went back and started doing the math around various statements he gave me about how much he said he was worth, the numbers weren't adding up. >> the book came out in 2005, and in 2006, trump sued o'brien for $5 billion. he claimed that he was defamed. to win, trump had to prove that o'brien acted with malice. however, the presiding judge denied trump's claim and ultimately dismissed the lawsuit. >> we deposed donald for two days and that deposition is one of the great rosetta stones of understanding the real donald trump. because during the course of that deposition, he really couldn't give a practical and reliable assessment about how he determines his net worth. >> in 2011, donald trump also began throwing around the accusation that president obama was not a u.s. citizen, that no one even knew him growing up. >> you are not allowed to be a president if you're not born in this country. he may not have been born in this country. >> i just thoug

tim o'brien is dialing forward the dialogue on the presidential campaign.een doing is writing a series of stories on mr. trump's taxes. the conflation of his is this transactions with his income at the top line. i don't get to do that, do i? he is putting these in as documents for the federal election commission. actionable.s he is putting it in as an alternative statement. tom: right. mitt romney is not doing real estate, but governor romney had a lot of outside business interests. did he complete to the fec? indication that he did. trump has done this twice. i think it is part of the long-term roadshow that he has pretending his income or wealth might be larger than it is. francine: does that change the view? publishbe forced to them at some point? will change the view of how we see him? tim: no one cares as much about donald trump's wealth and income as donald trump does. the question is why he does it. it has allowed him to stay in the media for quite some time. his wealth has been fodder for the media for quite some time. badge of multie billionaire an

a bloomberg view editor, tim o'brien, wrote a biography of trump. he was sued by trump. and one of the things that came out, finally, was trump's tax returns. but he said they were so redacted, it looked like a crossword puzzle. >> all the good stuff's crossed out. >> let me ask you if all this stuff adds up. if he won't turn in his tax returns, he's posing as this guy, john martin or whatever the name is, as his own pr guy. if the thing -- the potty talk on stern, all that sort of stuff, if you knew all that stuff, would he still be any further back in line than he is now, ann? i don't think it would have affected his voters at all, but you tell me. >> well, no, going back -- looking backwards, apparently not. because -- >> they've known it all up-front. >> the equivalent stuff hasn't seemed to have affect him. what democrats are hoping is going forward when he tries to appeal to a larger audience that this stuff does start to matter. particularly on the taxes. i think he's the giving hillary clinton a free freebie here. >> what about the clinton cgi money going to some

tim o'brien argues otherwise in one of the most widely read stories on bloomberg today.one who saw trump's test it turns a decade ago as part of legal action when he sued me for libel, i think there are probably some things to learn he wrote. -- possible conflict of interest and financial pressures if he does win the white house. a research fellow at the hoover institution and a former adviser to marco rubio's presidential campaign. great see you again. to clarify, releasing tax returns is not a prerequisite for running for office. for an antiestablishment candidate like trump, why doesn't he just say i will not follow the usual rules? >> the big problem for donald trump is that people are curious why he won't put out these returns. the longer he waits to put that out, the longer the pressure builds. there are a number of different things you can learn from taciturn spirit when does it become a bigger problem for him to not release those returns over just getting them out there. scarlet: do you think there is a bombshell in it been? >> there is clearly stuff in there he

in 2005, "new york times" reporter tim o'brien claimed in a book called "trump nation" that donald trumpen trump and others said he was a billionaire. trump sued the reporter for over $2 billion, but the lawsuit opened him up to a close scrutiny of his finances. when he filed the 2006 claim, donald trump claimed a major part of his success was based on the accurate perception by the community and public that he's a billionaire. during a two-day deposition he was called out for exaggerating his wealth like when trump told larry king he was paid $1 million for a speech to the learning annex. >> i'll be teaching you how to make serious money in real estate. >> reporter: in the deposition, trump conceded the actual payment was $400,000. the rest he attributed to the learning annex's promotional expenses felt during questioning, he acknowledged he didn't fully explain how he came up with the $1 million value, "i don't break it down," he said. >> you have the water. you have the sticks. you have the airline that i sold -- >> reporter: the discrepancies between what trump says his net worth is

johnston, tim o'brien have written amazing books about his life.hose. >> there was a point in the '80s and '90s being rich made you a celebrity. lifestyles of the rich and famous. that is one of the reasons he gets such good coverage? >> that and he had the tv show so he had the double dose of celebrity. again, i think for the first three months, okay, he will have that celebrity glow. we have been doing this a year and we are still not really getting down to the nitty-gritty. how is he allowed to set the standard for this conversation about how clintons treated women when his past is like that. every article should have three paragraphs explaining how trump -- >> we can do an entire segment also on the birther thing which has been let go. >> oh, my goodness. >> it's a huge test for the media covering one of our own because he's in the media. >> that is insidious. >> nancy, always so great to see you. >>> up next, back in 2004 republicans used same sex marriage to galvanize their base to turn out for the presidential election. will that strategy ma