and tim o'brien is executive editor of bloomberg view. his book is called "trump nation: the art of being the donald." gentlemen, thank you both very much for being her.er marc fisher, i would like to start with you. the trump campaign is predicated in large part on the idea that trump is a magnificent businessman who can bringbr america back to prosperity, andy you've done a long analysis of what his business career is like. is that a fair characterizationh of him in does he deserve that title? >> well, he's certainly had a good deal of success. he's also had some terrible failures. his business career has been a rollercoaster. he's been atro great heights.ht he dominated atlantic city's casino gambling business for a time, but then he overextended himself there and ended up cannibalizing his own business and ended up with six corporate bankruptcies there.he similarly around the world, he's had a number of successes, but he's changed his whole business model in recent years because he took on less debt, less risk, because that had not be

back with tim o'brien always senior political reporter mallika henderson.hat about the argument about why not release the part of the returns that the audit is over for going back several years? >> look, i think voters are entitled the know.donald trump pays his taxes within the bounds of the law. and they know that. as to the individual tax rate, he is not required by law to release that. he is leading in the trust indicator over hillary clinton by 15 points. >> you don't think people care. >> voters indicate that they care in the polls, but they indicate they trust donald trump by 15 points more than they trust hillary clinton. i think clinton cannot make this argument when she was required to be transparent with her e-mails, she did not turn them over, she was required to turn over the benghazi e-mails, and they were bleechd for eternity. >> i get your argument she is a flawed on this, i can understand that. but in terms of transparency and voters -- should voters have the right to know is the presidential candidate, do they have connections with some fo

tim o'brien began writing "trump nation" in 2004 with donald trump's cooperation, and attempted to find worth really was. >> when i went back and started doing the math around various statements he gave me about how much he said he was worth, the numbers weren't adding up. >> the book came out in 2005, and in 2006, trump sued o'brien for $5 billion. he claimed that he was defamed. to win, trump had to prove that o'brien acted with malice. however, the presiding judge denied trump's claim and ultimately dismissed the lawsuit. >> we deposed donald for two days and that deposition is one of the great rosetta stones of understanding the real donald trump. because during the course of that deposition, he really couldn't give a practical and reliable assessment about how he determines his net worth. >> in 2011, donald trump also began throwing around the accusation that president obama was not a u.s. citizen, that no one even knew him growing up. >> you are not allowed to be a president if you're not born in this country. he may not have been born in this country. >> i just thought, come on!

joining me is tim o'brien and the art of being the donald and trump's net worth is far less than trumpit filed against him was dismissed and mallika henderson is back with us. you have seen the returns in the past during the lawsuit and you can't talk about the details of what you saw. what do you think he most does not want people to see? >> i think charitable giving is at the top of the list. he's made charitable giving one of the foundations of his campaign. he hasn't really substantiated all of the large assets he's claimed to have demonstrated as a philanthropist and the wherewithal of all of his businesses and he said he's one of the most successful business people in america. the tax returns especially if he included his corporate income would demonstrate how robust his businesses are. we'd also get a window on to his operations overseas and he's been highly critical of u.s. businesses for taking jobs out of the united states and we would start to see where his income comes from, and i think first and foremost we get a view of the potential conflicts of interest he'd experience