tim o'brien claimed in this book, in "trump nation" which, again, was published in 2005 he claimed mr. trump's net worth was not in the billions. it was probably something close to $250 million. he wasn't even a half billionaire. and i say that this book and that claim in particular drove donald trump nuts because we can tell. we can tell it drove him nuts because donald trump filed a lawsuit against tim o'brien when this book was published he sued him. and what he sued him for was $2 billion. sure, why not? the lawsuit ended up being an embarrassment for mr. trump. he's claiming this author -- he's suing this author dramatically understated his net worth. that meant the trial was effectively about donald trump's net worth and about whether he could prove he was a billionaire and in the trial he could not prove he was a billionaire. his depositions from that case are littered with embarrassing examples of him overstating and weirdly fantastically stating his income and hiss net worth. he publicly stated, for example, that he'd been paid a million dollars for a single speech. turns out

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he sued tim o'brien back in the day -- i forgot what year it was -- but he was at the "new york times" for basically saying that his net worth was not as much as he said it was. and donald trump lost that lawsuit as far as i remember. it's possible that is behind some of his reticence to actually expose his tax returns. >> yeah, that's exactly right. and this is always, when people were assuming that he would not run for president was because he didn't want to release his tax returns. in forbes. they asked if he was worth $4.5 billion. he said he was worth $10 billion. there's a discrepancy between what donald trump says he's worth and outside observers say he's worth, that being said, i don't know that the tax returns are going to tell us what his net worth is, simply because so much of his income is tied up in real estate. he releases disclosures which break down everything he has, his worth. still, the point here is that we're getting a very incomplete picture even if we get some sort of tax return. >> and the charitable foundation question was interesting because not only his comm

he sued an author, tim o'brien, because of his 2005 book on donald trump in which o'brien entertainedhe argument that maybe trump isn't a billionaire, maybe he's just a millionaire. so part of the discovery in this case, o'brien has said was trump producing his tax returns? 2005, the year of the book, 2005, the year of the tax returns, i think the simplest explanation is somebody from that courthouse, somebody involved in that case got the copy that trump had to submit as part of discovery for that case and now it's leaked out. >> jared, on your blog you wrote in part that the punch line here is that the president's tax reform plan gets rid of the alternative minimum tax. explain to us in layman's terms what that is and why the president would want to get rid of that. >> so, donald trump paid an effective tax rate of 25% in 2005. that's what we learned from this partial return. were it not for the alternative minimum tax, the amt, he would have paid a rate of 5%. what the alternative tax does is recognizes that tons of high-income folks, especially people in industries to take losses,

. >> michael dantonio and tim o'brien.uch. >>> still ahead, the golfer in chief playing golf at one of his courses and we normally wouldn't report on something like this. he did say time and time again during the campaign attacking president trump playing golf he would never do it. details ahead. m going with the $1000 in cash back. my son... ...a cash man. dad, are you crying? nah, just something in my eye. the volkswagen 3 and easy event... ...where you can choose one of three easy ways to get a $1000 offer. hurry in to your volkswagen dealer now and you can get $1000 as an apr bonus, a lease bonus, or cash back. then you're a couple. think of all you'll share... like snoring. does your bed do that? the dual adjustability of a sleep number bed allows you each to choose the firmness and comfort you want. so every couple can get the best sleep ever. does your bed do that? only at a sleep number store, where queen mattresses start at just $899. and right now save $400 on our most popular mattresses. go to sleepnumber.com fo

tim o'brien, author of "trump nation," the fact that the president weighed in on this so publicly, sean spicer talked about this in the briefing, why would he do this so publicly and he said that the president believes general flynn should testify and he wants, quote, the story to get out there. are you surprised that the president waded in these waters? >> absolutely not. what doesn't he wade into? we're at a point where nothing the president does around process issues is surprising, which i think is unfortunate. it would be judicious of him to hold back in moments like this and let the process run its course in a completely nonpartisan way. unfortunately, we're in the middle of an investigation that has been highly politicized. and spicer and the rest of team trump keep defaulting to, well, what about hillary clinton? she had a conversation with the russians. and that's become a fairly lame argument. i think they have to come forward with their best accounting to what occurred. >> the president did weigh in on this and, to use your word, being judicious. is there any issue with the la

one of the most fascinating stories i did along the way is a guy named tim o'brien, who used to work for "the new york times," and in his book he had an estimate of how much trump was worth and it was lower than what trump was saying. trump sued o'brien, which was stupid, because that gave o'brien's attorneys -- he had really good attorneys -- a chance at discovery and actually look into this black box of a company trump had been talking about all these years. an amazing two-day deposition that we had a transcript of where it showed that he was not telling the truth again and again and again. hours and hours of them saying, "on this day you said you sold 400 units of the trump toronto tower. is that true?" "yes." "i have this paper that says you sold only 100." "oh, yeah." he would not tell the truth even when he had to know -- he would say a falsehood even when he was talking to somebody who he would know had the right answer, he would be called on it. after compiling all these falsehoods, called experts on lying and people who study lying, and they were amazed by them. [laughter] d

one of the most fascinating stories i did on the way was a guy named tim o'brien to use to and used toe times " work for trump. trump sues o'briant, which was stupid, because that gave anrien's attorney opportunity to do discovery and look in this black box that they had been talking about. day deposition that we had a transcript of. the whole purpose was to show trump wasn't telling the truth again and again. it was hours and hours and sold 400 units to trump tower. yes. but i have some here that says you only sold 100 units. yes. he told the truth, he would say the falsehood, knowing that he was talking to someone who knew the right answer, and he would be called on it. it was amazing. inctually called experts lying, people who studying lying. and they were amazed by them. the thing that they said was that most people when you like, people lie in a way that has wiggle room, because you are afraid -- you don't want the psychic pain of getting caught. think of "i did not have sexual relations with that moment -- with that woman," most people -- trump's lives were specific. i sold this m

chief washington correspondent, we're going to go gossip today.s of let's bring up the quote here tim o'brien about trump finances and the happy moment a decided nese investor not to pour billions into a by attan sky scraper owned the kushner clan. the timeline matters. is a distraction. what i want to know is where is mr. bannon in the white house this morning? adviser.chief yesterday in the senate, the .s. senate intelligence committee led by richard burr as well as mark warner updated about their on going investigation into russia meddling into the u.s. election. said they will be interviewing jared kushner as well as others in the coming weeks. that means that this chatter and this gossip is going to continue for quite some time. obviously these are accusations. white house press secretary sean spicer has refuted. that said, they're facing on tions from republicans capitol hill. >> talk to me about the serious new health this care bill. are we really going to get a hel care bill next week? what will it look like? and will it be approved? >> i nut question to some senior ides just about wh