i'm going to ask you the same question that tim o'brien asked and i know you have to answer it in a differenton post" alludes today to donald trump is libertarian. the budget that was presented yesterday, does that indicate a new libertarian donald trump or mick mulvaney or libertarian senator paul from kentucky? kevin: i'm just a reporter, but i don't see how that budget proposal is libertarian at all. i think it is more government spending. i spoke with several republicans yesterday, particularly those who were a bit perplexed at last year's to be government expansion -- last week's to government extension, that this was a "symptom of the swamp." this is more government funding for a host of programs from infrastructure, opioid addiction, national defense. i'm not saying that's a good or bad thing. i'm not seeing how that's libertarian. tom: the speaker pelosi taking a victory lap? kevin: she had a lot of pressure on her, but before last week, daca8.5 hour filibuster on was something that rallied the democrats behind her. quite candidly she needed it . wera: does the fact that have midterm

i want to bring in my panel, tim o'brien, bloomberg view. jennifer palmmary, white house communications director under obama. and brett stevens, op-ed columnist for "the new york times." what do you make of what you heard? >> it's clear the president's being programmed on this particular topic by the nra because i don't think he had a mind of his own on it. he's never been a student of policy. it's i think the -- >> he understands money though and if teachers are armed in schools that would sell a whole lot of guns. >> right, give them a bonus, they'll carry a gun. i think this is one of those examples where the sort of tragic comic path the president follow, the policy positions, have dangerous implications. he hasn't been a student of the gun issue other than to play to his base or play to the nra. there's good politics for him involved in that decision in terms of getting re-elected, in terms of supporting his core base. as a matter of public policy, he's ignorant. and the problem here is that he's almost advocating position, about things

in one deposition related to a libel case against tim o'brien, mr. trump admitted more than two dozen times under oath that he lied in the past about a range of subjects. mr. trump ultimately lost the case. >>> there is also news tonight in the latest chapter over the house intelligence committee memos pertaining to this russia case, and the potential for a new showdown with the white house. the intel committee voted unanimously to release the democratic rebuttal now to the republican memo which accused federal investigators of improperly obtaining surveillance warrants for carter page. the republican document was released late last week by the committee chairman and trump ally congressman devin nunes, republican of california. democrats on the committee contend its real purpose is to discredit the mueller inquiry. here's the committee's top democrat tonight. >> as the progression of the investigation, the investigation by bob mueller, as more and more individuals have either been indicted or pled guilty and the evidence has mounted, both in terms of

joining us now is barbara mcquad, stephen harper, and tim o'brien, the author of "trump nation" now, barbara, i want to go to you first on what it means that rick gates was charged with paul manafort, and they were sort of aligning their defenses what does it mean for paul manafort that rick gates has pleaded out? : i think it's a significant developlement to the detriment of paul manafort. it was such a document based case. documents don't lie, it's easy to prove them objectively. now that you have this very close associate, rick gates pleading guilty now you have someone who can connect the dots, provide a narrator to the trial, he likely knows things that happen between them, conversations that they had, and i think this news has to be devastating to paul manafort. >> rick gates wrote a letter to his family and friends, which was obtained by abc news earlier, he wrote despite my desire to defend myself, i had a on change of heart. he said the cost and the circus like atmosphere are too much. how hard do prosecutors like bob mueller press someone like gates and what will they give

that the last deposition that trump was subjected to, when he was trying to sue the journalist tim o'brien he lied more than 30 times in that deposition alone. so now it's a matter of the lawyers kind of needing to control trump's bravado because in the past trump has said bring it on. i would be happy to be interviewed by mueller, including under oath and that was a pledge that took his lawyers by surprise because saying you would be willing to testify under oath means you would appear before a grand jury. so trump has gone overboard with how excited he seems to clear his own name. and he told aides that he would be able to exonerate himself in an interview with mueller. when nixon didn't release the tapes and deied a subpoena to do so he underestimated the extent that damaged him politically. if trump were to refuse an interview with mueller, it could damage him as well. >> nick, let me go through this procedurally. we can presume since the lawyers have been negotiating with the special prosecutor since december about the interview, what they're negotiating is this stuff that appeared in

. >> joining us now tim o'brien, the executive editor of bloomberg view, an msnbc contributor and curt anderson, an author, and jennifer rubin is joining us, a writer at "the washington post" and msnbc contributor. before i get to my trump scholars, jennifer, i wanted to start with you on the dimensions of the lie the president told today because here we have 17 dead in florida and certainly more than 17 families wondering what might have been, what could have been, how could this have been different, and for the president to insert himself and say, if only donald trump were there, if only donald trump were there your child might be alive today, for him to insert himself into that grief with this ugly fantasy is such -- in my view such a vile violation of the grieving that is going on in florida. something only donald trump would be capable of. >> it is always about donald trump. even the death of 17 people, including the death of children. it's always about donald trump. the truth be told, he's a five hch time deferred wannabe. he has to equate going to boarding school or avoiding sex

when he sued tim o'brien for libel and his lawyers got trump under oath, he had to admit he had liedrcumstances, in public, in public statements. he had not -- didn't admit that he lied under oath. so i think trump has an understanding of the difference and the importance of, you know, of restraining himself in that setting. >> if this does go to court and ultimately the supreme court, how long would it take? would it go into the 2018 campaigns? >> boy, you're talking about three levels of appeals. it would go to a district court, the dc circuit court of appeals, and then the united states supreme court. it's hard for me to imagine that could get done in less than three or four months. >> those are the two equities, right? you don't want to put him under oath, but you also don't want to drag it out. they're hoping for this to end as quickly as possible. it's not inconceivable the obstruction phase could be over in the summer maybe, but if you have this big legal fight over whether you're going to talk or not t stretches it out. >> the fact they want to talk to the president does indi

it is quite an essay from tim o'brien this morning.d -- has completely consumed in the nation. our french teacher's -- teachers going to return the fire in our schools? kevin: i think the administration has since backed off the president's original proposing to arm teachers and administrators. now they are saying maybe providing bonuses or whatnot. i think the crux of the potential done reform we could see as early as next week when lawmakers return from congress is lifting the age of being able to purchase a firearm from 18 to 21, increase funds to provide mental background checks, and bolstering the background check system. anything else is really just fodder for the nra. tom: the news flow is so extraordinary. our general mcmaster and general kelly going to survive the weekend? kevin: i think there's a lot of tension between them and to be honest, it's quite surprising from where we were a year ago simply because the military folks in the administration were very much in -- on the same page and now it seems there's distance between