and found that -- i wonder if he had actually given you some -- like the things they carried, by tim o'bryanoks like war is a racket, or must have been a teenager when tom cruise's movie came out, "born of the 4th of july." did any of that affect you, it wouldn't be you? >> that was for me? sorry. my father did discourage me from joining but my father wasn't a reader, and so there was no literature around about war. and i think probably would have -- i mean, his best advice to me, once i did join, was kind of cliche but it's true, don't go out and try to be a hero, like my father saw guys who wanted to be heroes and died in vietnam. and i also saw a guy standing in front of him at the chow line get hit bay -- by a sniper. he knew it was a -- as phil said in its very best circumstances, a brutal heinous machine. i'm not sure i've answered your question. >> have you since read tim o'brien's, the things they carried? >> sure, of course, yes. >> phil and i were talking about "the things they cared." i read that after i got out of the marine corps and in my 20s. it came out in '91, like while the