, was masterminded by timothy mcveigh and substantially carried out by timothy mcveigh with verym terry nichols. >> if there were other people involved with the bombing, who were they? some believe there may have been a connection between mcveigh and elohim city, a so-called christian identity community in northeastern oklahoma, about 170 miles from oklahoma city near the arkansas border. >> it's essentially a religion that says white anglo-saxon americans are the true children of israel and jews are subhuman and essentially black people are not even human at all. >> during the early 1990s a number of far right extremists reportedly spent time in elohim city. >> this was an interesting time. you had a number of anti-government groups that were taking shape, arming themselves, building compounds throughout the country, establishing their own laws, really setting themselves apart from mainstream cities and locations on purpose and believing, then, that not only people of other faiths or ethnicities or nationalities were the enemy, but that the united states government was the bigge

timothy mcveigh was not try to and oklahoma, but colorado? >> right.n the case, very similar the whole city is running area was really traumatized emotionally biased. and the judge in the case i think correctly said, you know, it is important that especially in these cases that are so political and high visibility that we as americans set the highest standards of due process, at least prove to people who use violence that we won't be do to from our values from our system of justice. we will go over and above to make sure there is a fair trial. that is why in the timothy mc a case, they moved it out of state. -- timothy mcveigh case, they moved it out of state. no doubt he got a fair trial. the concern is, if you don't do that here, there will be multiple issues of appeal, our perception either in the country and certain internationally that somehow dzhokhar tsarnaev did not get a fair trial and therefore, was going to be delayed in any execution and beyond that, we will be living with it for years to come and have the real bad danger of possibly turnin

when it turns out it was timothy mcveigh, timothy mcveigh worked with other people, had all the definitionof a terrorist attack , then it wasn't. oh, no, it was timothy mcveigh. and he did this. a white christian man. no longer did we refer to it as a terrorist attack. >> right. that happens all the time. first of all, it was steve emerson just said that birmingham was an all muslim city that no non-muslims can enter, who went on the air and was the most influential and shaking what you just described and he said, the attempt here was to kill as many people as possible which is a middle east attribute. therefore, we should assume or highly speculate this is likely an attack perpetrated a someone from the middle east someone who is muslim. that is how the narrative started. steve emerson's career did not suffer at all from that. if you watch how these attacks are discussed, every time there's an attack where the assailant or perpetrator is unknown, the media will say this unknown whether or not terrorism is involved. what they really mean is it is unknown whether or not the perpetrator is m

one of them named timothy mcveigh. o years later, he would bomb the federal building in oklahoma city. mcveigh said he did it in part because of the government action at waco. 16 days into the standoff, david koresh agrees to let two follows meet with government negotiators face-to-face. >> he had selected steve schneider, his number one lieutenant and wayne martin, their harvard-educated attorney to come out and talk to our representative. the tension was extremely high. you could quite literally feel the crosshairs on you from the branch davidian compound as i'm sure steve schneider and wayne martin could feel from our tactical teams that had everybody covered. >> the meeting is positive. the fbi negotiators arranged to meet again in two days and deliver written assurances requested by koresh, but schneider abruptly cancels the second meeting. >> he indicated that david didn't think it was necessary, so i said, wait a minute, you don't want to come out or david doesn't want you to come out? he says, well, david doesn'

timothy mcveigh killed 168 and injured over 600 with a truck bomb in oklahoma city.correctly eric freezing rain a survivalist who evaded capture for nearly two months. the threat is not -- in the west ever since september 11st the overriding fear has been loan wolf home grown attackers, driven by the -- idea that the u.s. is at war with isis. dzhokher has said that he and his brother were motivated by the notion of war between islam and america. in may 2013, two british-born muslim converts killed a british soldier in london. in october a recent muslim convert attacked four new york city police officers with a hatchet. two attacks in canada in october were both carried out by men who recently converted to islam. and in sydney australia, a gunman held ten people hostage in a cafe. in virtually all loan wolf cases there are questions about the attackers mental health and social isolation. isolation which can make them even more difficult to detect. law enforcement can't arrest someone for thinking violent radical thoughts or for being a suspicious loaner. >> typically

you and i would never think that way. >> ted kaczynski, like timothy mcveigh, was a game changer withm. if we go to a federal office building or we get our mail, these are places where we expect safety. and, indeed, the postal service changed their methods for accepting and transporting packages and mail due to ted kaczynski. >> chief among the changes in postal security is the requirement that packages weighing more than 13 ounces be mailed in person at a post office, rather than being placed in a mailbox. but beyond the security measures, the biggest impact of kaczynski's campaign of terror has been on the victims. in the years since the bombings, at least four have died of natural causes. but others still bear the scars both physical and emotional. >> you will never be the same. you accept it. you will never have closure. there is no such a word as closure. closure does not exist. life is different. now you get to choose what you're going to do with it. you can be bitter. you can be angry. or you can be happy. those are your choices. >> while some of ted kaczynski's victims have ma

is he talking about timothy mcveigh 20 years ago? i'm not sure.r the vast majority of the terrorism that is taking place especially in the west you can link it right back to islamic fundamentals. and that's where we should be focusing our efforts. >> this is a president who refuses to say that the islamic state, isis or isil is not islamic. they are never going to admit this. the president says the future does not belong to those who pray to the prophet. this is a fundamental idea that the president of the united states has held. what's the point of it? don't we have a u.n. dealing with it for 30 plus years if not longer. we k we just won't do it. if you don't identify the enemy then you can't win the war. we are at war and we are not acting like it. >> we are killing islamic terrorists every day. >> not enough of them. >> you can argue that. that's a point. >> otherwise isis wouldn't exist. >> you can't accuse barack obama and his military of not doing it. >> i was talking about his rhetoric. >> i don't understand what the problem is with islamic

remember when timothy mcveigh was tried they gave a venue change. for the same reason as here.tial jury. the worry about the judge's ruling it is an immediate grounds for an appeal. >> how do you find an impartial jury? >> in this day and age, everybody knows everything. that should no longer be the standard. the prosecution should give them a change of venue. and the evidence in this case is overwhelming. it is not a amount of guilt or on innocence, it is matter of life or death. it is a slow plea. the defendant will try to gain sympathy from the jury and that is the only defense he has. >> what dow think the chances are of that eventually heather? he is up for execution. >> there is a colorado method that is used in picking a jury in this type of cases, all you are looking for is someone who does not give the death penalty. if you get one person that will not give death penalty he gets life in parole. they are looking not if they are against muslim but to so if they would be giving the death penalty. >> how has the prosecutors hand uponling of the case so far? some of your co

emerson was saying we should be looking for arab muslim men when it was a white christian man timothy mcveighhas latched onto it stupidly. >> fox issued an apology. bobby jindal yesterday and then today was asked about no-go zones. i did say so-called no-go zones and i think the radical left wants to pretend this problem is not here. somehow this is all the fault of the radical left. >> i think governor jindal is protesting a bit too much. he might be trying to scrub some of the brown off his skin as he runs for a presidential bid. i'm pretty sure that governor jindal will come to its senses in the next couple of days. >> we talk about people coming to their senses. the anti-islam is a very pronounced sentiment in the united states. america, it feels like radical islam is at war with the west and all of its principles. as a result some states all but 16, have considered passing anti-sharia law provisions. that's a dramatic number of states that have tried to pass this. seven states currently do ban sharia law. when you have a sort of tidal wave of governance that seizes on these feelings of f

the possibility for an appeal issue when you can simply move the trial just like they did with timothy mcveighng. this case is an open wound in boston and particularly in massachusetts. this is almost boston's world trade center case the way it resinates throughout boston and new england. however, a case determination can be made during the jury selection process that a jury can't be picked in boston. it's not over yet. if all these hundreds of jurors are questioned and many of them indicate they can't be fair we still could see a change of venue in this case. i'm not saying it's going to happen. from a legal standpoint it has happened in other similar cases. >> we now know one of the attorneys representing dzhokhar tsarnaev has represented the unabomber and others and able to make plea deals to spare their lives from the death penalty. not the case here given the developments from this morning. feds say no plea deal. can she be effective in her role? >> she's been very effective in the past. this is a sophisticated defense attorney well aware of how to negotiate and present these cases. somet

with small groups and muslim or not, going back as far as timothy mcveigh and the oklahoma city bombinge guy with a truck. we're also worried about large groups coming bam from training abroad. the difference between aqap and isis, they're both vying for the kind of manle of who is the biggest dog on the block and they're claiming to be the real representative of the new caliphate or whatever they want to use. certainly the big target is the united states. the fact there's an attack in belgium, that shows you we all have to be vigilant because there could be an attack anywhere. >> mike, thanks a lot. the gitmo showdown. the obama administration transferred fire more detainees from the prison in guantanamo bay and defied republican critics who claim that could put the united states at risk. these men were once suspected of beinged a quite fighter but there nor charges against them, held without due process for 12 years. now after 12 years in lockup, with nothing, no charges of any kind and no plans for any charges of any kind defense officials say there is no reason to keep on holding th

. >> why not call it timothy mcveigh republican extremism. >> going back to a blast from the past. >> all right mr. hanna. >> let's not foreguest the french police officer who was muslim. >> they are hijacking. >> showing up at the eventually that as it may we appreciate your time. juan and mary katharine will react by the president and his advisors. later, watters world on who americans admire most. that should be i so you're looking for a loan? how's your credit? i know i have an 810 fico score, thanks to the tools and help on experian.com. and your big idea is hot dogs shaped like hamburgers? nope. hamburgers shaped like hot dogs. that's not really in our wheelhouse... you don't put it in a wheelhouse. you put it in your mouth. get your credit swagger on. become a member of experian credit tracker and find out your fico score powered by experian. fico scores are used in 90% of credit decisions. your eyes really are unique. in fact, they depend on a unique set of nutrients. that's why there's ocuvite to help protect your eye health. as you age your eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocu

only three federal inmates including timothy mcveigh have been put to death since 2001. >>> well people living in one west african country, mali, are breathing a sigh of relief. the health minister announced an end to the ebola outbreak. no new cases have been reported over the past 42 days, that the period required for the world health organization to declare an official outbreak being over. >>> meanwhile pope francis we love you. that was the cry from hundreds of children in the philippines as the pope boarded a plane headed back to the vatican. pope francis visited the philippines during a week long trip and drew what phillipine officials believe was a record crowd of 6 million faithful during his visit manilla. >>> icy roads are blamed for a string of deadly crashes on some of philadelphia's most heavily traveled highway. at least one person was killed and 30 others hurt in one pile up on i76. there were other pile ups involving over a dozen cars on i476, i95, the highways were shutdown while the scene was cleared. >> so ice not really the issue for us? >> a little bit. we've got ar

timothy mcveigh was caught because he didn't have a license plate on his car and an officer did a motorehicle stop on him. they have to make sure they keep a couple things the posture to protect the political infrastructure and make people feel safe, protect the crime scenes and recover all of that information to make sure there's no forensics evidence that they can link to anyone associated with this. this wasn't these three individuals. they're well trained, well armed and well equipped and they had a plan and that didn't happen overnight and there had to be other people involved in helping them. the other thing you have to be careful of is the information is going to come in fast and furious. the french police have to make their assessments of that information and control the officers responding. i'm sure the citizens are calling in with concerns and suspicious items. you'll see police going from location to location trying to deal with the 911 calls and they've got to remember that the information can sometimes be bad, you have to vet that information out. >> how concerned are you f

the memo obtained by national review even says people like timothy mcveigh should be called militants. the channel calls the criticism subtle mccarthyism and responded with this video. >> we don't use the label islamist, for example, or extremist. we usually let the group's actions speak for themselves. >> the question of terminology caused a stir at yesterday's white house briefing. when abc's jonathan carl asked about the bowe bergdahl prisoner swap with the taliban. >> the taliban is still conducting terrorist attacks, you can't really say that the war is part their concern. >> well, i'd also point out that the taliban is an armed insurgency. isil is a terrorist group. we don't make concessions to terrorist groups. >> abc didn't cover that exchange on its evening newscast. press secretary josh ernest tried to distinguish it. >> those terror tactics have been focused on afghanistan. al qaeda is a terrorist organization that has aspirations that extend beyond just the border between afghanistan and pakistan. al qaeda and their affiliates around the globe have sought to carry out terr

most people agree that the bombing of the building by timothy mcveigh and his crew in 1995 was domesticappened to house a day care center. but federal nonetheless. but what about the mass shooting that injured gaby giffords four years ago today? giffords was a sitting congresswoman at the time should that attack have been been labeled domestic terrorism? what about the couple who bragged about participating in the armed standoff with federal agents at the ranch and went on a shooting rampage in las vegas killing a third person before draping a flag over the bodies and kills themselves? would those incidents targeting agents of governmental power be classified as domestic terrorism even though the perpetrators were not muslims? and if the naacp bombing turns out to be motivated by hate does the fact that no one was killed exclude terrorism as the right term for what occurred? and that wraps things up i'll see you back here tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. eastern and visit us online. the cycle is up next. ♪ ♪ ♪ "here i am. rock you like a hurricane." ♪ fiber one now makes cookies. find them in the

i actually talked to steven jones, who represented timothy mcveigh who was convicted, obviously, of theing. he have thinks it's rather ludicrous to compare the community-wide trauma here after the marathon bombings to what happened in oklahoma city. you don't want to actually keep a death count but let's face it three people were killed in boston 17 people lost their legs and more than 200 were injured. in oklahoma city 168 people were killed and 19 of them were children. the extensive damage to buildings, there were more than 300 buildings damaged or totally destroyed in the oklahoma city bombing and it was impossible jones said, to find anybody that wasn't touched by it. i can only tell you my experience here. i have a lot of friends who don't follow this case. they saw what was on tv but i think we in our business and they in their legal business seem to think everybody follows this as closely as we do. i can just tell you by experience that's just not true. and i don't think it's -- i don't think just by the fact that you saw television coverage or read the newspaper about what happ

understand the murderous act that happened in a newsroom and put it in the context the way we did when timothy mcveighnd did what he did. or john vsalvey who shot up abortion clinics in boston and came out a catholic tradition of anti-abortion. we don't condemn in the the same way, with the sweeping indictments because we look at them as people who are crazy and have done an expression of violence. if we got more sophistication that way, we would solve this crime better. >> something just alluded to. which i want to throw on its head, the bbc are reporting a neighbor living right next door to cherif has described him as a well behaved, friendly polite clean looking and above all, which is very important, he was willing to help old and disabled people. so if we just go backseat to the conversations we just had about crazies and trying to identify who these mentally ill people are. >> people said the same thing about tim mcveigh. >> it's a complex problem. identifying who someone is before they're about to go and commit something, as this description is just outlined isn't easy. >> so chris, let me come

guest: what we would do in the united states, timothy mcveigh got, the oklahoma city bomber got the deathalty. he was -- those laws are in place. so, i think we are doing that. host: sandra on the line from vienna, virginia democratic caller. caller: hi. i think the u.s. should have a national terror line 1-800-for people if they see something they can call. i think it's too much trouble to have to go through the police line and i just think that if anybody calls in and they are telling something that's wrong, they should automatically get 20 years in jail. host: what's the best way for people to phone in if they see something and want to say something? caller: that's campaign dhs again, one of the successful campaigns is the see something/say something campaign. there are multiple different ways to call the homeland security, they take all of the incoming leads seriously and address them. at the end of the day, there are, you know, the intelligence community gets, you know thousands of leads every single day and in discerning what is actual from real or not real is very difficult challen

for example, they wanted to move timothy mcveigh, they d.o.j. simpson, they did.s costly. >> very costly. you have to look at the tiej. -- timing. we're in a different world. you see about it on facebook, you can pull up half the videos on youtube. you have to understand the synergy in getting this information out to jury. >> in that city they're paying a lot more attention to this trial. if it was moved they may not pay attention to it. >> if you see his funeral and the real footage is in the movie, he's a local hero. they gathered around on the highway. they were on underpasses. the fire fighters were there. >> the movie didn't really highlight his death. the movie is highlighting what he did as a sniper. let's take into account. everything isn't positive. there is a gag order on this trial. maybe defense should remove the gag order. >> you point out "the rolling stone" vilified him. here's chris kyle in his own words talking about his job. >> i'm killing them to protect my fellow americans. i'm committed to making sure every service member that was over there w