this book is fascinating, a ton of new reporting and interviews about timothy mcveigh.new about. i knew he showed up at waco, i knew he sought revenge by bombing the federal building in oklahoma. but there's so much more to it. >> the thing that really struck me in getting into the documents and the interviews that i found in this library at the university of texas was that mcveigh is not who people thought he was. people thought he was a loner, an eccentric. he was part of a movement. he was part of the right-wing reaction to bill clinton in the 1990s. he was a dedicated listener to rush limbaugh. that is who he was. that was where he got the inspiration. it wasn't just waco that motivated him, which was, he did do the bombing on the second anniversary of waco, but just as important was september 13th, 1994 when bill clinton signed the assault weapons ban. >> in the book, it's fascinating. you have this quote from -- he told his attorney, he said, "i believe there is an army out there ready to rise up even though i never found it." there wasn't the internet then. >> th

timothy mcveigh. it's connected to guns, to white supremacy. and now we have a u.s.. >> revolting, utterly revolting. does senator tuberville honestly believe our military is stronger with white nationalists in its ranks? i cannot believe this needs to be said. but white narmism has no place in our armed forces and no place in any corner of american society, period, full stop, end of story. i urge senator tuberville to think about the destructive spectacle he is creating in the senate. his actions are dangerous. his words are gravely damaging. his refusal to think about the consequences of his actions on our military personnel and families is a stain upon this chamber. >> strong statement, paul, but it comes up short of tieing white supremacy back to mcveigh, back to waco, back to trump. >> he's right. but it's also coming from chuck schumer, so often it will be seen as a part san fight. this is so much bigger than that. this is the spawn of trump. tuberville is assuming this mantle of being a radical, kind of political suicide bomber, just going in on behalf of the

but two years after the siege, after the fiery event we had the bombing by timothy mcveigh at oklahoma city, the murrah federal building. he did that. he said he did it and revenge of vengeance for waco. mm hmm and ever since you say that january 6th, the attack the insurgency on the us capitol that was also inspired by waco and now most recently we have this leak of important us military documents about ukraine and american readiness and other things that person who leaked that information was known to be on message boards, talking about waco and ruby ridge. that's all connected. and that happened ten years before this guy was born. mcveigh up the federal building. in the book, we have pictures of timothy mcveigh perched on the hood of his truck outside mount carmel during the siege peddling anti-government t-shirts and bumper stickers. if you look at the stories about january 6th and we're seeing now people coming up for trial if you go on the sites for some of these organizations, promise keepers, so forth. they're organizers, all say that they decide after waco that the government

. >> it's interesting because i think in the 1990s when timothy mcveigh orchestrated this mass murdernd i want to be clear that what he did is unfathomably worse than what rhodes did in terms of the sheer human toll, bought this idea of the founders and might makes right and today's revolution, it feels much closer in some ways to the cortissoz of the republican party in 2023 than it did to the republican party and that -- >> yes, absolutely, but the motivation is even more similar today than in 1995. talk about guns. the obsession with the second amendment and the idea, incorrect, but the idea that democrats are always going to take your guns away. >> and this is -- erodes >> central to the oath keepers. mcveigh, oh a lot of people remember he was motivated by anger about the waco raid, the bombing the second anniversary of the waco raid. he was just as outraged by bill clinton assigning assault weapons ban in 1994. that was the event where he and terry nichols said, that does it, we are bombing a building. >> this is where you get to this existential point. we talked today about des

violent extremists gravitate less towards the complex plots involving the large bombs we saw from timothy mcveight much more to this large body count and a couple of weapons and a manifesto, this aboutive shooter thing, texas being the latest example. as my colleague just said, looking at mauricio garcia, if you look at the chats going on inside the white supremacist world, here was a guy who was very active in those chats, posting nazi stuff, communicating with white supremacists overseas, who is being rejected by virulent white supremacist groups as not being white enough. so, you know, you see confusion in a group that recruits outsiders who are bent on violence and just need a label. >> amy, you testified on capitol hill last week. you had some heated exchanges with republicans. you said violent extremism disproportionately comes from the right, including especially white supremacists. do you think congress has a true understanding of what the threat looks like of white supremacists extremism? obviously, people can believe what they want to believe but it's the acting that's the real problem,

in the 1990's, timothy mcveigh. these things keep being brought up, these issues of violence and racism. these are core problems in american life that go to the real struggles to be american and to keep people safe. think about the fact we have 700 -- over 700 confederate symbols on military bases. we have black people serving from the military. these are core problems and denial in this country is really deep and has to change. amy: and you for bending changing its name -- for bending changing its name. i want to end with doug jones on a note of history. you have repeatedly said that perhaps the most important thing you have ever done is prosecute the klansman who killed the four little girls in birmingham, alabama, when they blew up the church. we are approaching the 60th anniversary of that tragedy in september. talk about the case and fighting white supremacist violence then, your role in convicting thomas blanton and bobby cherry, and where you think we stand today 60 years later. >> i appreciate you asking tha

. >> you reported on -- this is about the 1995 oklahoma city bombing, timothy mcveigh.his reported out this fascinating book. they dominated headlines in the anti-government lone wolf. you think it's no the complete story. talk about the influences. i think it is relative today. >> if you look at mcveigh, you see that he was not a loner. not by himself. he was part of a movement. he was part of the conservative movement. a lot of people remember he was outraged by what the fbi did at waco. he was just outraged about what happened a year earlier when bill clinton signed the assault weapons ban. the obsession with guns. the belief in violence. the obsession with the founding fatherses. the idea that because the founding fathers rebelled against the british, we have the right to rebel against the federal government. listen to the people january 6th. that agenda was exactly the same. >> saying he wasn't a lone are is interesting. what i was obsessed with now is now merit garland's role in all this and how he stripped parts of that away and focused on hip as this was going o

for example, in the case of timothy mcveigh, in oklahoma city, the judge there agreed that everyone hadboston marathon bomber, where there was still a community wide there was a community wide devastation, the judge concluded boston was big enough city that they could find 12 people who had not been personally affected by it. so the judge will have to do some fact finding to find a injury for this case. >> let me ask you about the "dateline" reporting. one of kohberger's sisters noticed he had been wearing latex gloves and driving by the murder scene and driving the same car. they searched it and said they didn't find anything. how might that information be used in the case if at all? >> i don't know that it will. i think the more solid evidence will be things like video surveillance of the car. the use of his cell phone that turned off kind of just around the time of the murders then right back on and placed him at the right route where he would need to be to head back home. but i think that it is possible to the extent they need some corroboration. this idea he's wearing gloves, talki

it has its roots in recent american history to timothy mcveigh, who has roots in being radicalized.. these sentiments have been in our country for decades and decades. but what is new is we have leaders like the former president, who is now the presumptivive nominee for the republican party, who are willing to engage with this insurrectionist ideology. this antigovernment ideology, which is so interesting because donald trump was a president. he was part of government. but his tenure was the hallmark of it was essentially antigovernment. he called government the deep state. so what's so different here, we have seen it play out time and time again over the last several years is that the extreme right, they listened to that. they listened to donald trump. they listened to other elected officials in congress and in the states. and feel like they have permission to go ahead and engage in assaults not just on the u.s. capitol, but assaults on state capitols. we saw that in 2020 during the pandemic. we have seen that in recent years. and seen assaults to just be sure that the record would