according to a new book entitled ecology without nature by timothy morton a philosopher and english chair at rice university we can overcome this feeling of defeat by actually rethinking our image and relationship with nature recently watching the hawks on sean stone said battle with morton to discuss his challenging new book. tim thank you so much for joining me it's really a pleasure to talk with you it's an honor thank you for having me of course and i want to start by asking you because of this term ecology without nature even a book by that title i want to understand what does that mean to you yes some people think it means that doesn't believe in coral you know doesn't believe the dolphins exist but my whole point is that i really believe in you know and i sort of believe that this concept is kind of getting in the way of us make a humans actually joining them in some kind of solidarity because really when you think about it nature is always somewhere else right it's like it is on that here somewhere it's on the floor like it's over there in the mountains you know it's never exactly