timothy snyder, professor of history at yale jufrt. know him on this show primarily as the author of this seminal book on tyranny. his newest book is called "on freedom." thank you for coming on. >> happy to see you. >> let me ask you, i talked a bit about oligarchy in the first segment. i just want to ask ifiotalked about in a way that resonates with you or if you thought i got that wrong? >> i thought you got that absolutely right. it was the ancient greeks who said oligarchs will be stronger than democrats because they will collect the money, have propaganda. we borrow the word from the russians who have seen this story happen in the 1990s. weak, aging president surrounded by rich, clever people who fight amongst themselves, divide up all the goodies and bring the state down. >> bringing the state down is important for people who care about the government. it's also important for people who are concerned about their everyday lives. there are things that the government does even if we don't appreciate our government, that we will mis

joining us, timothy snyder, you know him from this show, primarily as the author of the seminal book, "on tyranny." his newest book is called "on freedom." professor, thank you for coming in. let me ask you, i talked a little bit about the idea of oligarchy in the first segment. i want to know if i talked about that in a way that resonates with you or if i got that wrong? >> you got it absolutely right. it is the ancient greeks who said the oligarchs will be stronger than democrats because they will collect the money and have the propaganda. and then we borrow the word from the russians who have seen this story happen in the 1990s. week aging presidents renovate rich, clever people who fight amongst themselves, divide up all the goodies, and bring the state down. >> bringing the state down is important for people who care about the government. also for people who are concerned about their everyday lives. there are things that we will miss when we are gone. and if the oligarchs capture the government so that it only serve their purposes, the american people will be worse off and poorer

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joining us now is timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university.marily as the author of this seminole book "on tyranny" which became very famous during the first trump administration. his newest book is called "on freedom." it's really good to see you. >> happy to see you. >> i talked about the idea of oligarchy. i just wanted to ask if i talked about that in a way that resonates with you or if you have any thoughts about that or think i got that wrong. >> no. i thought it was absolutely right. it was the ancient greeks who said oligarchs will be stronger than democrats because they will collect the money and have the propaganda. you're right. it's always been a problem for democracy and we borrow the word from the russians who have seen this story happen in the 1990s, weak aging president surrounded by rich clever people who fight amongst themselves, divide up all the goodies and bring the state down. >> bringing the state down is important for people who care about the government. it's also important for people concerned about their everyday live

would be a rather radical change on his part if he did anything else besides that. >> professor timothy snydernk you very much for joining our discussion tonight. thank you. >>> coming up, today in angola, president biden spoke at the site where the first slave ship from africa bound for america departed in 1619. u eugene robinson joins us next. departed in 1619 u eugene robinson joins us next. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪♪ ♪ yeah... i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin yeah that's all me. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ ♪♪ with skyrizi 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months. and most people were clearer even at 5 years. skyrizi is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. ♪nothing and me go hand-in-hand♪ ♪ nothing on my skin, that's my new plan.♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ now's the time ask your doctor about skyrizi, the number one dermatologist-prescrib

but it also showed us something about the incoming musk trump republican regime which timothy snyder has nicknamed the mump regime. he writes how tocol this thing coming to america in a month. the elected president just administers a government four years where trump yearly wants to rule indefinitely. and the people he appointed will cheaply break things rather than run them. so regime, rather than administration. but whose? it is not trump's. it is funny to say president musk but that's not quite right. the office holder has less power than the moneybag. in another post, i called this trumpomuskovia. perhaps musk's name should come first. so mump. the mump regime. we have seen from the mump regime their impulses, the ignorance about how the government works. forcing the republican to do their bitting raises the responsibility that the destination defense of the government is that the other side is too incompetent to execute on its dark vision of america. joining us now, the author of the new york times best sellers on freedom and on tyranny. his new essay is titled the mump regime.

joining us now, timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university, the author of "new york times" best sellers "on freedom and on tyranny" and his new article is titled "dictators for a day." professor snyder, thank you for being here. this direction is intentional, loads of coverage about musk and doge, but not so much about this. let me read this. "musk being unearthed as the sole donor to a trump superpac, part of his almost quarter billion dollar buy to elect trump." professor, guide us. how do we keep our eye on the ball of what's really happening in the cyclone of trump bluster and the elon circus? >> yeah. i think the big picture has a couple of parts. one part is where is the money and who has the money? musk financed this campaign. musk spent more on it than all of trump's small donors combined and musk has a clear vision. musk's vision is one where the federal government breaks apart and the oligarchs get to pick up all the shiny pieces. whether he can do that i think is one of the things to watch. the other thing to watch is the appointments as a collective. so tulsi g

joining us is timothy snyder, professor of history at yale university, author of new york times best seller, on freedom and tyranny, and his essay is titled, the mump regime. thank you for being with us, it is good to have you with us. it is not frivolous in light, it is a descriptor of what is actually going on, the idea that a couple mornings ago, elon musk got up and tweeted that republicans should not pass this very important piece of legislation, the only constitutional piece of legislation they are compelled to pass. because he did not feel like it, known as clear why he did not feel like it or what his beef was, he says something and they do his vetting. it is very strange. >> it is very strange compared to what we expect are written in the constitution or americans voted for, no american voted for mr. yamiche alcindor . it is not strange given the financial structure where we have someone who plays a rich person on tv, which is mr. trump, who is being carried along by someone who is the richest man in the world, that is mr. musk. mr. trump has real debt and mr. musk has real

thank you very much timothy snyder for being here.ing development that may of changed the calculation a little bit today is that we found out that trump, our would- be strong man, is answerable to a bigger strong man. not putin, elon musk who also allegedly, according to reports, has lots of conversations with putin what does that do to the calculation on how americans should deal with trump? >> reporter: i think that is a good place to start. i wrote a piece a few weeks ago called submission chain. voters like trump but trump is submissive to musk and musk is submissive for putin. that is what we got now. we got a cluster of oligarchs who are the real power in our country n. terms of how to recest you have to do what -- resist you have to do what you were doing, name it. >> and i think that is a great point. once we now identified that it is international and i am always trying to sort of get folks to focus outside of the united states to see how these oligarch interact. if it is argentina or trump or venezuela or hungary, they inter

there's the case study in obeying in advance as professor timothy snyder puts it happening not in hungaryght here. scores of business leaders seemingly determined to curry favor with donald trump, as we witness donald trump using civil litigation to pursue any media outlet or anyone who displeases him, even a pollster who came out with a shock poll ahead of the november election and as we witness media outlets absorb those blows, the headlines speak for themselves. cnn writing, "emboldened by abc's settlement, trump threatens more lawsuits defense the press." pbs, "abc news with trump raises concern about press freedom in his second term," and all of it happening in public out in the open in front of our eyes, the seeds being planted for retribution against the most outspoken and prominent critics of donald trump that he promised. on tuesday house republicans released a report calling for january 6th committee vice chairwoman liz cheney to be investigated by the fbi. that report claims she "colluded with star witness cassidy hutchinson without hutchinson's attorney's knowledge in order to

professor timothy snyder of yale university wrote the way to resist is to not obey in advance. the demands of the new ruling group. that's good advice. i might add a corollary here. people should not panic and exhaust themselves in advance either, end quote. joining me is the aforementioned tom nichols. author of our own worst enemy, the assault from within on modern democracy. tom, thank you for this. i have been sort of thinking about ways to think about this and to say it, communicate to people that it is really normal and easy to get exhausted in advance. trump is, i remember now from those days we covered him as president, exhausting, and knows that trick works, particularly with the media. >> yeah, and, i mean, he firehoses his opponents with a lot of, you know, crazy talk and threats and kind of odd statements. he calls it doing the weave. i call it, you know, simply not being, you know, very competent at stringing thoughts together. but he understands that if he piles enough things together we all throw our hands up and say, you know, what can do you? what do you do abo

one of the things and there's a there's a term that timothy snyder talks about, which is anticipatory obedience. it's a step in fascism where you anticipate what's coming. so you start to behave, you start to be compliant, you start to agree with the fascists. you start to say, yeah, okay, we all have to get our brave on and we all have to say no, i don't think it's right that donald trump is hiring all of jax missiles lawyers and putting in his own mar-a-lago lawyers to go and an election probe that is fascism, right? that is straight up fascism. and we need to say that it is not right that matt gaetz was, who is a you know, who is a sex trafficker and and they won't even release his records because they're so bad. it's going to be our attorney general. we all have to be outraged about that. right? when is like, not anymore. not anymore. we know that. but i'm just i know that this believe me, i know this is passed, but i'm just saying, like every single time they come, we have to go back and say no, no, we cannot roll over now. we cannot lay down now. we have to get our fight on and.

they are doing what timothy snyder said. they're obeying in advance.d do the thing that puts them in the administration in charge. there's a delineation between the outgoing biden administration and the incoming trump administration. it's got to do with regulation. a lot of companies have faced a trade commission under lina khan that has been very assertive. no new laws. she has been assertive, you can't control too much of the market. you can't do certain things. they want not just a trump -- remember in 2016, you wanted a trump who didn't target you on social media, who didn't take your name, who didn't come after you. now you want something different. you want a deregulatory trump, a trump that's going to allow your company to do what it wants, if you're social media or a company that controls up to a third of the market, which is the threshold for federal regulation. you really want these guys on your side. so they are paying homage to him. they're showing up in the places where he will listen. i don't love it, and i'll tell you why i don't love it

there is the case study in advance as professor timothy snyder puts it.re. scores a business leader seemingly determined to curry favor with donald trump. donald trump using civil litigation to pursue any media outlet or anyone who displeases him, even a poster who came out with a shock poll at the end of the november election. as we witnessed media outlets absorb those flows, headline speak for themselves. cnn writing this, quote, emboldened by abc's settlement, trump threatens more lawsuit against the press. pbs wrote it this way, quote, abc new settlement with trump raises concerns about the press freedom in the second term. all of this is happening in public. out in the open, in front of her eyes. the seed has been planted for the retribution against the most outspoken and prominent critics of donald trump that he promised. on tuesday, house republicans released a report calling for january six mark -- january 6 committee member liz cheney to be bs divided by the fbi that she colluded with star witness chassis -- cassidy hutchinson without her attorne

author and professor timothy snyder joins us to talk about that next. about that next. i'm padma lakshmi. i came to this country when i was four years old with my mother. we came here because it was a land of opportunity. but for many, that's not the case. immigrant families are being separated. black and brown families are torn apart by a broken legal system. lgbtq people suffer discrimination in adoption and health care. the need to protect and defend the civil liberties we all hold dear is more urgent than ever because families belong together. you can help by joining the american civil liberties union today. call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day. the aclu has fought to allow lgbtq couples to marry, for racial justice. to stop a family separation. we can't do this work without you. together we can defend our democracy, ensure liberty and justice for all, and keep families strong. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org when you use your credit card,