tip o'neill and ronald reagan.y managed to make politics work besides their philosophical differences. believe me, they were different. considering all the dysfunction in washington lately, it's my hope this book will remind people it doesn't have to be this way. and here's a glimpse into that story. >> gentlemen, we will drink a toast to the president of the united states. >> washington was different back then. they were different. ronald reagan came to the presidency in 1980 with a mission. he wanted to get things done, cut the size of government, cut taxes, end the cold war. >> and that will be weekend reading for tip o'neill. >> tip o'neill was the speaker of the house but understood voters wanted something new. if reagan had the votes, he would have his way. >> i enjoy his company when i go over there. philosophically, we're completely different. do i agree with his politics? absolutely no. >> government worked back then because politicians talked to each other. i know because i was there behind the scenes i w

tip o'neil was in there with him. a bad fight, one of the worst they had ever seen. 15 minutes later they were in the state dining room jovial at a budget meeting. >> every time they get into an argument, whether tip said something bad about mrs. reagan by accident, think it was off the record, he'd call up and say, what do i do? he'd say, write a hand-written letter. you'll be okay. reagan called him a demagogue. he called him the next day, let's be friends again. they were always drawing limits. that's what old-school politics was like. you knew when you'd crossed the line. reagan knew the country had an 11% unemployment rate. david stockman apparently came to the president right after they had that big donny brook. he said to it the president, we're pretty close here. so he goes running after tip in the other room and says, come on, i think we can get together on this. he sends stockman up the friday before he got married. remember, he gets married then. he goes up that friday before, meets with him, and cuts a bil

it worked against tip o'neill back in the '80s. he was a democrat, of course, right? all the republicans and a few conservative democrats banded together and voted to seize the floor from tip o'neill. just for a second so they could pass one vote. so they could pass something that president reagan wanted passed at the time. this is an obscure parliamentary trick, and it almost never happens. but if you have enough rebels in your speaker's own party who are willing to side against him for just one vote, theoretically and even sometimes historically, this has worked. it's worked in the past. and louise slaughter tried to make it work again today. she tried to get a handful of republicans to join with all the democrats to essentially take over the house from john boehner for just a second. for just one vote. one vote with which, of course, they would pass a clean fund-the-government bill and end the shutdown. louise slaughter said yesterday that she was going to do this. she tried it today, and it failed. no republicans were willing to side against john boehner, even for

democratic speaker of the house, tip o'neil. ining me now is the man who wrote the book on that political partnership, chris matthews, host of msnbc show, "hardball," and author of "tip and the gipper," when politics work. >> well said. i agree with everything you said. people think this is a love story of reagan. this is an adversary story. but it's limited. like limited government, conservatives believe in that. how about limited politics. you compromise. and reagan, the governor, you point out, was better than reagan the pamphletier. and on taxes, you're right. they saw he cut too much in '81. he came back totally the other way in '82. on social security, he had a progressive solution. tax the rich and make sure the poor had an adequate health care, i mean, adequate retirement pension program for the federal government. i mean, ironically, and even on the defense spending, you could argue, i wouldn't make the argument, but a lot of what he was able to do with gorbachev, he had the heft on his side, because they believed in the

there is a moment you have here where -- where ronald reagan is proudly telling tip o'neill how well ocrats and the california legislature. and tip says, tip says that was the minor leagues. you're in the big leagues now. >> this is, reagan later told his biographer, this is when i love it they blow it. when they think i am not that bright. pat brown thought that. reagan took it as an insult. >> didn't like it. he knew it worked for him. reagan always looked being under estimated. he is sort slow. an actor. pat brown thought he would beat him. didn't like the fact that tip was governor. for eight years. had taken on a truculent crowd. >> thought there was a boston irish thing. we cannot resist the little dig. then next thing. does ronald reagan go back up to the white house angry at this guy, tip o'neill, angry, builter, no. next thing. here comes an invitation. first social invitation to tip o'neill and his wife. >> and dinner at the white house. tip said how am i going to dislike this guy. so they get upstairs. they have dinner the whole night. they drink. stiff drink to start with.

he baited tip o'neill, into a fight that made national news. fight in which o'neal became the first house speaker in near lou 200 years to have his word taken down. this was newt's game, exploiting television to appeal directly to the grassroots, to convince conservatives across america that he was only republican in wash work who was really going to fight for them. this is how he made his name. not guy passing laws, not by chairing a committee, not by working with his colleagues. the same outside game that ted >>> good thursday morning. right now on first look, no deal. a meeting of america's top leaders produces next to nothing as the country begins feeling the effects of a partial government shutdown. exclusive interviews, president obama speaks out and benjamin netanyahu lashes iran. >>> tragic accident. a north carolina church group's happy outing takes a horrific turn. >>> plus, legendary espionage and cold war writer tom clancy has died. a close call for air commuter and gas prices continue to drop. >>> good morning. i'm

he baited tip o'neill, into a fight that made national news. fight in which o'neal became the first house speaker in near lou 200 years to have his word taken down. this was newt's game, exploiting television to appeal directly to the grassroots, to convince conservatives across america that he was only republican in wash work who was really going to fight for them. this is how he made his name. not guy passing laws, not by chairing a committee, not by working with his colleagues. the same outside game that ted

i served as an aide here on capitol hill when tip o'neill was speaker of the house. i think he's one of the greatest speakers that ever served in the united states house of representatives. and he was a friend of mine as well. and i will tell you that speaker o'neill would never go on national tv and threaten to default on the debt for this nation. he would never, ever act in a way that might bring this economy to ruin. he put country before political party. and i would also say that speaker o'neill understood the importance of working in a bipartisan way. he would be disgusted with the way this house is being run today. the bottom line is, he would be scratching his head right now wondering why we don't just resolve this in a simple way. there are 200 democrats who have signed a letter saying we will cooperate with the republicans to pass a continuing resolution, a clean continuing resolution at republican levels and we know there are 20 republicans in the house who have publicly said that they would support such a move. that's the majority. we could open up the gov

the problem is tip o'neil knew had el was a politics.elieve he's a transendant historical figure. why does he have to get down in the mud with the -- >> i live the psychoanalysis, it's very profound you're asking the president to negotiate -- >> hold that thought. >> he said he didn't want to negotiate. >>> hold that thought. it's a brilliant thought. i don't want you to forget any of it. the panel will stay with us. we have a little more work to do. >>> first up, what does our buddy jay leno think of all this take a look. >> how many are worried about the government shutdown? how many more are worried about it starting back up? yeah, that's the problem. let's see. let's fay it. we do have a lot of nonessential employees, like the treasury secretary. why is he there? we don't have any money in the treasury. it's not like he's counting. the room is empty. >>> all right. let's get right back to our panel, one final time. let me get this right, because i know you had a brilliant thought. you're telling me that ronald reagan could get along

he baited tip o'neill, into a fight that made national news. in which o'neal became the first house speaker in near lou 200 years to have his word taken down. this was newt's game, exploiting television to appeal directly to the grassroots, to convince conservatives across america that he was only republican in wash work who was really going to fight for them. this is how he made his name. not guy passing laws, not by chairing a committee, not by using stunts to make him self adhere to the base, the kind of hero that any republican looking to get ahead in this world will thing twice before attacking. newt gingrich, more than any body else, may be responsible for where we are, what we are now seeing playing out. inside the halls of congress. he wrote the script. ted cruz is following it to a t. here we are. now barreling towards day three of the first government shutdown in nearly two decades. no end in sight. newt gingrich may be gone. but his legacy absolutely lives on. that does it for us tonight. rachel will be back tomorrow. and i will see

he baited tip o'neill, into a fight that made national news. in which o'neal became the first house speaker in near lou 200 years to have his word taken down.

a classic example is the way republican ronald reagan worked with tip o'neill, relationship characterized by spirited fighting and profound respect. as chris matthews writes, tip and the gipper when government worked. they believe government works best when people play by the rules. here's a quick look at that story. >> government worked because politicians talked to each other. i know because i was there behind the scenes and in those days i was a top aide to the speaker. that's me there checking to see how things are going. it was the toughest job i ever had but it was a front row seat to history. >> i remember when i first met president reagan myself in tip's office, welcome to the rumor we plot against to break the ice. in turn reagan reminded me, it's after 6:00, the speaker says in washington, we're all friends after 6:00. it was that spirit that made the historic compromises possible. >> author and "hardball" host chris matthews is here. thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> you've written a book that's remarkable for the personal history you weave with american history. the stor

about how president reagan and tip o'neill actually compromised to get things done.of wonders. i'm enjoying it. chris is an old friend. welcome to "mad money," chris. how you been? >> thank you, jim, so much. >> i'm enjoying the book. when i read about social security, which i think is actually going to have a potential stoppage, neither man would ever even dream of that happening. everybody would come together. what has happened since then? >> well, they were -- they were at odds on social security. reagan had that strange history back in the '60s when he was very conservative, saying he wanted to become -- make the program voluntary, which of course scared the heck out of the liberals. and then of course he tried to reduce the colas and penalize early retirement, take it from 80% if you retire at 62 down to 55%. he tried a number of those things. he basically lost the '82 midterm election over that and then decided now it's time to deal. and jim baker, the chief of staff to the president, let's not take any more heat on this. let's get this monkey off our back. and

he worked for tip o'neill.taff for bill clinton, sorry, director of the omb under president clinton and president obama. now of course he is the treasury secretary. i asked him he has seen many a debt ceiling raise and wanted him to reflect on times gone by and what we can learn from them now. >> it is interesting, you look back at the 1980s. at time people thought it was most partisan era ever. there is nostalgia for halcyon days of bipartisanship. i worked for a speaker who made the decision the one thing american people will not tolerate and obstruction. he allowed for bipartisan votes and sometimes lost those votes but allowed the house to work his will. that is how the reagan economic plan was enacted in 1981. on the debt limit, there was the notion of loyal opposition. if you were the majority you had to cast the hard votes ultimately to raise the debt limit. we need to get back to a spirit of patriotism like that where you don't end up with this kind of self-inflicted wound being inflicted on the economy

. >> i was here with tip o'neil, and you had this kind of coalition.s virtually all the republicans. >>> i think what has to happen is speaker boehner has to accept the nothing what is right is to building a coalition they can pass bills in the house, but they're going nowhere. >>> is the problem is you passed -- it will not pass the senate or will not be signed by the president. you want to make it work for the american people. so you say to the president, i think it requires a working -- and the speaker, the leader has made it very clear, she's interested in getting things done for the american people. and maybe the investments. >> that's just not been the case. we actually passed a bill to fund the senate institute of health. it was a bipartisan vote. >> oh, so you -- if we could get an agreement, you're saying shut it all down? >> no, no, we didn't -- >> that's not a reasonable approach. >> a very practical matter. it's virtually impossible for me to -- that john boehner can -- that are acceptable. it's possible to imagine you could have a bipartis

people don't talk to each other tip o'neill and ronald reagan are not getting drinks. yacht i got a fatah. where was interconnected washington during the shutdown? were they concerned we would default? or did they know what would happen all the time? >> that is a great question. if you looked at what drove the shutdown will get ted cruz. he has taken a big great deal of oxygen with this conversation. [laughter] he has very deftly taken advantage of the world we have allowed to grow up which is someone who does not care about accomplishing anything in the senate. does not care about being on a committee or the respect of his colleagues but he seems to be caring about running for president, a five to percent of c-span viewers the, the c-span ratings are 500% they've watched his filibuster. he wants to run for president the only thing that matters to him in many ways the way he conducts himself politically how to build his branch in a very angry and impassioned constituency within the republican party. that is how it is playing in all but as i said none of the people very

what was it about ronald reagan and tip o'neill that made it work? espect for the voter. when tip saw reagan win a big one in '80, you'll get your day in court. for filibusters. no games. everything that reagan campaigned on, you'll get a clean vote in the house by august of the first year. remember honeymoons? they don't expect anymore. jim baker, no matter what you think of him -- >> i love jim baker. let me say i love jim baker. >> jim baker was the best chief of staff in history. best chief of staff. >> no doubt. >> he would do things like -- first of all he was a pro. he sat reagan down and said you'll call every member of the house on both sides and work every democrat and go to the gym dinner. shows up with guys that did the rubdowns in house gym and dinner they have together. he shows up at that with reagan and bush and they work the guys. i knew that day which way the wind was blowing because every democrat wanted their picture taken with reagan in the gym dinner. he would call tip up and say can i come by and tell you what's going on? they w

suppose tip o'neill was advising john boehner? >> i think what obama could do-- and he hasn't done-- is spend a lot of time with members of congress. reagan -- >> rose: that's the story here. >> reagan respected congress. he respected that all those guys had been elected. he did respect them and he spent a lot of time with them. >> rose: he'd go right over their heads, wouldn't he? >> but he'd have tip to dinner, spend time with him, jim baker was the best there was. he would come to tip and give them heads up on what was coming next out of respect in the back room. "tell nobody about it." he'd go to his house. reagan was always sending signs of respect to tip, he knew they was co-branch of government and it was equal. none of this "i'm better than you." >> rose: back to the book, when you look at these two guys, are we simply looking at a time that will never again be? or is simply a question of the philosophy of the tea party members is one of, in their own minds, it's principle, principle principle? >> rose: >> well, i think th

made by tip o'neill. chris matthews wrote a box about the working relationship, tip and the gipper.nce sat down with chris to talk about the book. in part three of their historic interview they talk why tip o'neill was right, all politics is local. >> tip was the congressman from my, the congressional district, that my mother grew up in. north cambridge. everybody always says. north cambridge. they need to distinguish from the harvard section of town. right. >> you are a hybrid. st. john's. >> i find myself. >> did you have any nicknames like booger reid. all the nicknames. >> all the nicknames around tip any office. >> my room mate. phil downy, friend with crazy nicknames. >> yeah, yeah, i was a kid. don't think i was 10 years old. found myself at a table with, with tip o'neill. where we ordered the same thing. he said, what do you want? i ordered strawberry ice cream. he had the same thing. his lunch as far as i could tell >> i would have lunch. i would go eat a sandwich. come in. say want a sandwich. want somebody to have lunch with. get down to with the house members. i would ge

and those two irishmen, tip o'neill and ronald reagan, they said we're going to fix it. and what we're going to do 1% first thing, we're going to take this iron rail of american politics, we're going to take it off the table to be used to as a hammer to beat your opponent over the head with in the next election. and then we're going to appoint a blue ribbon panel, and they're going to bring back their recommendation to the congress and we're going to pass it and all of that occurs, and it passed overwhelmingly, and it made social security actuarily sound for the next half century, well into the 3020's, all the way from 19 -- 2030's, all the way from 1983. that's an example of the finest traditions of governing under the american constitutional method in our democratic systems. and so when you get at logger heads in a time like this, where is that respect, that genuine, not that superficial respect, not that respect that, fortunately, we show to each other out here on the floor of the senate but where is that genuine respect and where is that recognition, mr. president, t

gingrich got the fight with tip o'neill he had been dreaming of for years. >> you deliberately stoodore an emteam house and challenged the people and challenged their americanism and it is the lowest thing i have ever seen in my 32 years in congress. >> i move we take the speaker's words down. >> as a matter of fact i was expressing my opinion, very mildly, because i think mucht wor -- much worse than i said all. up ait is my patriotism being impugned. what we are seeing comes class to a mccarthyism of the left. >> it really is impossible to everstate what this did for gingrich's place in his party. the gop's leadership spent six years ignoring him. treating him like a gadfly. he baited tip o'neilo'neill, in fight that made national news. a fight in which o'neal became the first house speaker in near lou 200 years to have his word taken down. this was

matthews describes battles of ronald reagan and leader of democratically controlled house speaker tip o'neill from 1981 to 1986. the story is a memoir recalling matthew top aide and a road to how the democratic system can function. tip and gipper tackled same issues the 113th congress has proved incapable of resolving, government shutdowns, battles over government shutdowns and debt ceiling programs but their solutions were entirely different. when it came to raising the debt ceiling, chris matthews writes, speaker o'neill made a request. he wanted top liaison to relay back to his boss precisely what the deal would be that he, tip o'neill, wanted a personal note from each and every member of the house asking his or her support in the debt ceiling. he agreed on the spot and carried it back to reagan. he asked for letters arrived the next day, all 243 of them. it was a small, telling episode. here was the democratic congressional leader proposing a wholly pragmatic soocease-fire. o'neill proposed avoiding harm to either party. with the federal government closed for business and a default on ame

. >> rose: tell me about the tip o'neill you knew. >> three tip o'neills, like a lot of people are three people. one is santa claus. he is what everybody thought he was. a big liberal, look out for you if you've got a brother, somebody in trouble, he will be your best friend. especially you're a poor kid or old sick person. if you're some rich kid from harvard he hasn't got time for you. second, black irish which is that he resents a lot of people on the other side, resent of people who had it made, i think, and the third guy was the politician. the pure politician. i've always said the pure coalition between the politician and santa claus ran the show but the other black irish guy was there. he talked about cutting glass harvard when he was one of the townies and he would it is there with here iss and the overseer was like a simon hey from who would say "off your ass, o'neil. " and he talked about watching rich kids with their boater hats drinking champagne with complete impunity during prohibition. he said "they were rich, they could do anything they wanted to. i vowed my people would

. >> but tip o'neill, the thought of unseating tip o'neill among democrats would have been unthinkablen i was covering this place. >> in a primary you mean. >> no i mean as speaker. internally nobody would challenge tip o'neill even if he made mistakes. >> one thing i know all of us heard from different members of leadership and different aides was two or three weeks ago, because we all knew boehner was against this plan, even though i'm not trying to absolve him of it but he didn't think it was smart, was our members need to learn that if you touch a pot on top of a stove it's hot and it will burn you. >> don't they know that? >> i asked someone who was smart about this group of republicans, and i said, so do they now think that? and this individual said, well, the core group of three dozen or so, they do not. but the rest of the republican caucus, the rest of the republicans in the house, they have learned that if you touch it you get burned. because republican disapproval numbers are very high and the country right now is very anxious. >> but they're not career politicians. so if th