and that is what tish james is doing.just add for your listeners, for your viewers, that remember, trump's really focused on tish james, whose work is largely done. she had the charges, she conducted the investigations. she's not the lead attorney in that courtroom. that's a man named kevin wallace, a white guy. notice trump ain't got no smoke for the white guy who's actually standing up every day and calling him a crook. he's only got smoke for tish james, who at this point could sit in the courtroom eating a bag of popcorn because he work is largely done. so that's number one. number two, he's calling her a racist. we know the political implications of that. but i just want to say very clearly, there is no evidence at all that tish james is racist against orange people. there is no evidence that she is only prosecuting trump because he is orange. there was only evidence that she is prosecuting trump because he committed fraud. again, if trump wants to say that there are other orange people in new york city that have com

tish james looked directly ahead. there could not have been a more dramatic staredown than what we just witnessed. >> i was reading everything from your piece, sue, that donald trump believes just by being there he can influence the outcome of this trial and he took advantage of it. when he went in, he spoke. at the lunch break, he spoke. i want to play what we just heard from him. >> we're going to be here for months with a judge that already made up his mind. it's ridiculous. he's a democrat judge. he's an operative and it's ridiculous. other than that, things went very well. >> sue, he doesn't often let sort of a temper show. he has these lines he uses all the time, but you can feel and see and hear the frustration in his voice with that. >> you really could. you could also see it in court today. he was angry. he walked in angry, and at times he looked a bit bored during some of it. boy did he perk up when his second lawyer got on. she was audible, almost yelling at times at the judge. i have to say the idea this m

well, at least that's according to attorney general tish james.ay both sides delivered opening statements, the attorney general's team sought to convince the judge in this case that trump should be barred from doing business in the state of new york. according to our nbc news colleagues inside the courtroom, a lawyer inside james' office, kevin wallace, suggest that had while it may be one thing to exaggerate the size of stuff, the forbes magazine or on tv in front of viewers, quote, you cannot do it while conducting business in the state of new york. here is the attorney general's message on that this morning. >> my message is simple, no matter how powerful you are, no matter how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. and it is my responsibility and my duty and my job to enforce it. the law is both powerful and fragile and today in court we will prove our case. i thank you all for being here and, again, justice will prevail. >> now, trump's defense lawyers made polar opposite arguments saying there was no intent to defraud, p

the errors that tish james has found.d be one thing if the valuation difference is sometimes hurt him and other times helped him, but they always helped him every time. so you know, given those two thing i think it's a very rocky road for the defense which is why they're not really putting on a legal defense. they're putting on a political defense. >> i'm going to springboard off of the brilliant neal katyal and say we'll be holding our breath to see donald trump go, it's me. hi. i'm the problem. it's me. maya wiy, and neal katyal. youant to see and hear more of neal's brilliant musings please check out msnbc.com/openarguments. plus in a new court filing jack smith cites trump's attacks on potential witnesses and says he may have broken the law again. also tonight, a special guest on why losing trump tower and other properties would be personal and painful. all of that, plus accountability. a big word. the ex-president in court as a defendant on video. ideo unresolved depression symptoms were in my way. i needed more from

here is new york attorney general tish james soon after trump left the courthouse. >> mr.'s comments were offensive. they were baseless. that were devoid of any facts or any evidence. what they were, were comments that unfortunately fermented violence, and comments i would describe as race baiting. comments unfortunately that appeal to the bottom of our humanity. this case was brought simply because it was a case where individuals have engaged in a pattern or practice of fraud. and it will not sit idly by and allow anyone to subvert the law. and lastly, i will not be bullied. and so, mr. trump is no longer here. that donald trump show is over. this was nothing more than a political stunt, a fundraising stop. >> as far as what happened inside the courootoday, we heard testimony from two accountants who at one point worked on trump's finances. one of them singled out trump's son, eric, who was in the courtroom today. accountant cameron harris said eric was part of the executive leadership team who, quote, set the tone at the top. meanwhile, eric sat in the courtroom shaking

because this statute, the cause of action that tish james brought this case under, the one that judge engoron ruled on summary, that's the statement that has its remedy in equity. it's a discouragement. she's looking to be repaid for what the state of new york was defrauded from. there is some case law that would point to the fact there may not be a jury in that type of case. however, i will say that any competent lawyer would have at least checked the box, as it were, or put in that boilerplate language that joey and i know so well. you always put in a response saying, we request a jury trial. they could have litigated this issue for sure. i'm not sure where it would have come out, but they haven't preserved the issue for appeal now. >> we should point out, the judge said neither side asked for a jury trial. >> that's significant to caroline points, you can at least make the ask, without getting into the niceties of equities and what it is about. what happens in a civil trial, there's two phases, one of which is to determine liability. the judge made that assessment. you have liabili

tish james, of course, is a racist, it's a line he's used many times with many people. he said the same thing about jack smith. he says the same thing about fani willis. this is a guy who doesn't understand disparaging somebody is not the way to win a case. what you need to do is bring the evidence, bring the documents, in order to clear name, as opposed to thinking you are going to clear your name by disparaging somebody else. and the fact that you get guys like cliff robert, the fact you get even like alina halle or chris kise to make these statements, the fact that now jumbo jordan is now added as well. this is all part of the playbook. i've watched that playbook since 2015, as it relates to the campaign. this is so part and parcel for the playbook it doesn't even affect me. >> do you think that trump cares, to your, point about whether or not he loses this case? it seems they're not as worried about the legal ramifications of all of this. >> this is actually a big one for donald, because donald entire id, his ego, his super ego, have all been predicated around the n

no recovery for donald as a result of the civil case being brought tomorrow by attorney general tish james>> this ruling is called a corporate death sentence. you're playing a key role in this but you're also a lawyer, what it will mean for trump to lose control over several of his real estate holdings in new york, what does that actually look like? >> well, first of all, i believe that it's just more than just several, once he loses the license, in which to operate the good standing of the certificates that make up the trump corporation, not only is the main company now going into the receivership but there are hundreds of other subsidiary companies that additionally will go as part of the receivership. it's a financial catastrophe. it's the death blow to donald trump. and during my tenure at the trump organization, i can tell you this has always been his biggest fear that he would lose money, that he would lose all of his money and that he would no longer be considered the megabillionaire that he tried to portray himself as. >> what do you expect, given this trial is out there, this is g

tish james announced as many as 53 potential witnesses.mp's attorneys announced as much as 123 or 127 potential witnesses. here's what i can tell you, the defense teams almost always over estimate how many witnesses they're going to call. that impacts how long the trial will be, and in my experience, if they say they're going to call 127, they may end up calling only 27. so that will impact how long this trial will actually last. >> we're seeing some images of the courtroom, we see the former president sitting there, the a.g. there right behind him looking straight at him. we've often talked about the fact that, you know, whether there is or not cameras in the courtroom in these different cases. what is it like here? here we're seeing essentially a camera spray and no more cameras. >> yeah, that's right, jose. what we did see earlier, though, is donald trump standing outside the courtroom and absolutely denouncing the judge and the attorney general in very personal terms calling the judge a rogue judge, exhorting his followers to, quote, g

>> yeah, look, there's no question that this is not on tish james and her staff.y could have -- trump could have asked for a jury. it's unclear whether he is legally entitled to it because of the nature of the case, but he certainly could have litigated it, any person who really wanted a jury would have asked for one and would have come up with legal arguments. he certainly has made tenuous legal arguments before. this is one where, look, it's a bald faced misstatement, shall we say, for him to claim that it's anything other than his own doing. so he has decided he's going to have the judge decide this, and then he also decided that he's going to attack the judge who is deciding it, which makes it very clear that he doesn't think that he has the facts or the law on his side, and that's why he's doing this. because he's playing not to the courtroom and what's going on in the courtroom where law and facts matter. and you can tell the judge, in spite of how the defendant is behaving, trying to make sure he is accorded all of the rights because of the rule of law in t

he didn't say don't talk about tish james. i know ag james and she can take care of herself and you heard that today with her responding in the court of public opinion. so, i think that those kinds of comments the judge will allow to continue. first amendment. >> this is a judge though in the past as you know who has imposed fines on donald trump in this very regard for thumbing a court's order. that case was about contempt or not responding to subpoenas by james. we have a track record in appellate court, about $100,000 or more, $10,000 a day in fines. so there's the possibility that he could enforce provisions of his gag order. otherwise, demonstrated he is serious about this. but norm is right. the balance that has to be struck because he knows quite well what's going to happen on appeal. they're trying this right now. he knows there's already the air of political politics at play with the accusations that james is merely trying to grind a political ax against trump. he's aware of that. when it comes down to the bare bo bone

judge arthur engoron is in agreement to tish james that the company should not be able to practice, neither should donald. allen weisselberg -- none of them to be able to operate any business in the state of new york. so, sure, it's understandable he would be angry. >> michael, you are at the center of today's hearing in some ways. i want to get your response to some comments made today in courts by cliff robert, one of the representatives for don jr. and air trumpy. said in part, quote, there are major lynch pin is michael cohen. so, when you talk about credibility, they're going to have a guy who lies everybody, who's a convicted felon. he is a fixture of what their cases about. what is your response to that? >> i think cliff roberts is an idiot. first and foremost, i have provided testimony to seven different congressional committees, to the mueller team, to the district attorney of 23 occasions to, the attorney general. only cliff and donald trump, it's all part of the gop hands bank. all they are going to do is sit there and try to discredit me to disparage me, that's the name of the t

tish james of course is a racist, a line he's used many times with many people. he said the same thing about jack smith. he says the same thing about fani willis. this is a guy who sgnts understand. disparaging somebody is not the way to win a case. what you need to do is to bring the evidence, bring the documents in order to clear your name. >> terrorism wasn't required to attend the trial but says he decided to do so to, quote, watch the witch hunt himself. brynn gingras has more on the color from inside and outside the courtroom. >> reporter: yeah, pretty eventful day for the first day of the civil fraud trial brought against donald trump, his adult sons and the trump organization by new york attorney general latitia james. opening states kicked off with trump inside the courtroom and in those opening statements, the state's attorneys laid out what its case will be the next three months or so that this trial is expected to last talking about how trump and his sons and trump org conspired to commit persistent fraud and in doing so banks took on hidden risks. th

there were additional counts brought in the complaint that tish james and her team brought. some of those require intention, require that this fraud was intentional, and that could lead to even higher fine amounts and the dissolution of these businesses altogether including a ruling that line of scrimmage m letitia james is seeking that donald trump and his sons will not be allowed to do business in new york again. >> jennifer, because we're anticipating an appeal from the former president, how does the fact that this wasn't a jury's finding but rather a decision from the bunch weigh into that appeals process? >> it doesn't make any difference as far as the trial. so the judge will make the credibility findings that a jury would and ultimately decide as the fact-finder, that's exactly the same in terms of the appellate review, whether it's a judge or a jury. there are different standards for summary judgment because summary judgment relies on undisputed facts and a legal judgment. so that's in a little bit of a separate bucket that an appellate court can apply to that piece

there's the attorney general, tish james who brought this civil case.e're going to keep our eye on this trial. back to the situation at hand, and they're not completely divorced, i imagine. donald trump in court right there as his political future very much tied to the future of the republican party in general. so what's going to happen next? is it all going to get better now? now that they ousted kevin mccarthy for republicans, how do their prospects look for the next few months? >> well, let me tell you what happened in the minutes, if not hours after mccarthy was ousted. matt gaetz was out there on newsmax slamming the pro tem speaker, patrick mchenry, so that's going great. and patrick mchenry, the pro tem speaker's first item of business was to e-mail speaker aemeritus nancy pelosi to vacate her office. all problems have been solved and function has been restored. >> i had democratic member of congress annie custer on last hour, and she was saying that she hopes what emerges from this is maybe some consensus. maybe republicans will decide to put a

so that was tish james talking right then.ie gangel, what is your impression right now of what is going on in this courtroom right now with donald trump? >> well, the thing that struck me today was the fine for the gag order. $10,000 fine. and it reminded me, jake, you may remember, when we covered bob woodward's first book on trump "fear", and woodward tells the story of how trump's own lawyer, john dowd, said you can't go on the stand. if you testify, was the quote, you'll end up in an orange jump suit. and i remind everyone of that because one of things that the judge did in the gag order ruling was trump took the stand. he was under oath. and he said, oh, i was talking about michael cohen, not your clerk. the judge said, that wasn't credible. so just big picture, that was my takeaway from today's court appearance. >> and what does this tell you about what comes next in the trial. >> michael cohen is on the stand now and he's a very important witness. but there is a lot of evidence here that needs to be gone through. there

the clerk or the staff of the now he's already done it to fani willis, he's already done it to tish jamesmith. done it to myself, done it to a whole slew of individuals, because like a mob boss, let me tell you what he's doing. he's sending a message. unless you have ever been on the other side of one of his tweets or xs or truth social posts, whatever we call them these days, unless you have been on the other side of it and you have to deal with these maga maniacs who are reading into what trump is saying, even though it may not be as overt as you think, they're reading it the way that they want to, and they put your life, they put your family's life, they put everyone in danger. that's what donald is doing. he's sending one of those mob-like codes in order to obstruct justice and witness tamper. >> so the attacks on your credibility, they aren't new. you have heard them over time, but what's your reaction to trump family lawyer cliff robert calling you a, quote, unreliable witness? >> you know, just wait to see. obviously, another week or two, you're going to see me sitting there in tha

at one point he did seem to call on other people to join in his attacks on attorney general tish james when he said, quote, you ought to go after this attorney general. seems like a red flag. it's not like there is the first major civil suit that trump has faced. he never showed up in person for the civil case against him from writer e. jean carroll. that was a case where she accused him of sexual assault and rape. the judge found him liable for sexually abusing carroll but trump never bothered to show up during that trial. he cared enough to show up today. presumably because this case is about a thing that is famously more important to him than anything else. how big people think his business is. how rich people think he is. the judge in this case has already determined that trump did fraudulently inflate his assets to make his net worth appear larger than it is. the trial that started today is just to determine what punishments the judge will impose. those could include barring trump from ever again operating a business in new york. joining us now, msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin who

being attacked as anywhere from joe biden to black women across the board when you think about tish jamese undercurrent and overt racism and sexism and xenophobia and anti-immigrant and anti-semicism movement he spews. and it's so dangerous to think he is the front-runner for the republican party, and shame on the republican party for letting him get this far yet agone. >> in 2016 he seemed to strike a cord with some voters particularly white working class voters with his us versus them rhetoric. it seems this time around he's hit on this slightly different idea, they are coming after me, they could come after you next. do you think that's -- tell me why you think pretty significan of republican voters, and do you think it has any crossover appeal for a general election? >> it does, jonathan. because in your previous segment, when you talk about the price of orange juice, that's real. people go to the polls for pocketbook issues. we always have as americans. if you can keep it somewhat vague, this is why you see donald trump making inroads with latinos and asian-americans and a small sect

does judge engoron in the tish james games sort of set a precedent for judge chutkan or are these separate and apart from one another? >> the technical answer is they're separate and apart from one another. judges are human beings, and every time you cross for example new york crossed the threshold of indicting a former president. never been done before. but the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg does that. and lo and behold you see indictments in other jurisdictions both federal and fulton county, georgia, as a result. here this judge has taken a step of issuing a gag order against the former president. yes, this is a new york civil trial, but you can bet dollars to donuts that judge chutkan, a very respected judge in d.c., is watching these proceedings and thinking i'm going to wind up in a mess too with a defendant attacking my clerks, attacking myself and the like. she's incredibly careful and i think tried to do everything to avoid a showdown, but that showdown is now looking inevitable. and as you say on october 16th there will be a hearing, and i did expect at that point there

. >> if you go back to the michael cohen case, everything he said, tish james used to win a big chunkf the case she has against donald trump. to come back to you for a second, charles, mark meadows' lawyer has released a statement calling abc's reporting largely inaccurate. that doesn't mean that he's refuting that he has a deal. i am old enough to remember you telling me, sir, that the one person you would want to flip if you were involved in this case is him. if you're fani willis and you're reading that abc reporting, how are you looking at your dealings with the person you're prosecuting in your rico case, namely mark meadows? >> well, it is going to make me think and try to find out as much of the contours as possible as to whether he is cooperating and to what extent and what information he's providing. i mean, mark meadows is not going to get an across the board deal with respect to all of the prosecutions he's facing so i'm going to move forward with the case i have, but i do want to try to get as much information, if i am able to, from prosecutors on the federal level to find

making these decisions without me, even though i'm sure his signature is on all the documents that tish james has in front of her. i think that's what it's gonna come down to, considering how invasive they can be. what documents does laetitia james have in front of her that she can show, well, this clearly states this thing, versus this discrepancy over here in this file that was federal filed to deutsche bank or the federal government -- probably a great week to be tiffany trump. >> jordan, i've got to ask you. if you're looking ahead to friday, i think all eyes will be on that, maybe more important stuff will come out before them, but just having the spectacle of donald trump on the witness stand regardless of what he says, it has to be telling. the moment is just a very incredible moment when you think about it. a former president on the stand in a situation like this. you've got the attorney general, one of the -- after the former president testify and, it would be the end of the trial. and that case has really been building up to this moment. talk to us about what that day will look like

the interesting part is that now, tish james will have to show intent to defraud, show that there is a victim in this case, whereas before on the other issue of pervasive fraud, it is really a strict liability -- there was this misrepresentation and persuasiveness reconcentration. the hurdle is a bit larger, now and for the state to move forward, and the criminal trial here we're -- getting inside of ahead we saw today, they are really pounding away at the accounting, it was your fault there's a lot of finger pointing and terms of what was known -- >> pointing and saying it is your fault. >> so the point where anger was -- state hands on the, table saying he is not a codefendant, they are basically trying to pin everything on him. >> appreciated, joey jackson as, well thank, you -- from it's list of 400 richest americans, it is the second time in three yoshi has missed the cut. cnn senior reporter harry enten joins us now. so how much money that the former president lose last year? >> an astounding $600 million. that my friend is a very rare thing given that most of the people on the

at one point talking about new york attorney general tish james who brought this lawsuit. he said, quote, you have to go after this attorney general. which felt, i mean -- speaking in layman's terms there, that felt very much like him crossing the line when it comes to the way that he has attacked judges and prosecutors and other people involved in the various court proceedings in which he is implicated. you've got to go out -- you ought to go after this attorney general. what do you mean by that? so we'll talk about that a little later. andrea talk with somebody who was there inside the courtroom today and try to sort out some of what we're likely to expect in this case in the days ahead, particularly since this one seems to be agitating the former president, and it's one in which he may end up himself on the witness stand, testifying under oath. but the news got -- the news moves in mysterious ways. this contest in today's news between the jimmy carter post presidency at his 99th birthday, and the donald trump post presidency in court today in new york, so it feels a lit

does judge engoron, in the tish james case, set a precedent for judge chutkan?these separate and apart from one another? >> well, the technical answer is, they're separate and apart from one of another. what happens in one trial should not carry over and spill over to the next. they do, of course. judges are human beings. and every time you crossed a threshold, other jurisdictions watch. for example, it's new york that crossed the threshold of indicting a former president. never been done before. but the manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg, does that. and then lo and behold, you see indictments in other jurisdictions both the federal and fulton county, georgia, as a result. here, this judge has taken the step of issuing a gag order against the former president. yes, this is a new york civil trial. but you can bet dollars to donuts, judge chutkan, a very, very respected judge in d. c., is watching these proceedings and thinking, you know, i'm gonna wind up in this mess too, with a defendant whose mother himself off, attacking my clerks, attacking me. and the

. >>> coming up, what ag tish james said in response to donald trump today outside of court. >>> plusat 13 million patients stand to lose as health care workers go on strike today. h care workers go on strike today. since my citi custom cash® card automatically adjusts to earn me more cash back in my top eligible category... suddenly life's feeling a little more automatic. like doors opening wherever i go... [sound of airplane overhead] even the ground is moving for me! y'all seeing this? wild! and i don't even have to activate anything. oooooohhh... automatic sashimi! earn cash back that automatically adjusts to how you spend with the citi custom cash® card. [mind blown explosion noise] the subway series menu is getting a new lineup of sandwiches - the deli heroes. there's fresh sliced turkey on the titan turkey. fresh sliced ham on the grand slam ham. five meats on the beast! and look at that double cheese! try subway's tastiest refresh yet. this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomwa

it is not something you're unfamiliar with if you're tish james' office. you're prepared for it.ormation he's providing is something that he's known, that he would have been in the position to know, and that he's telling the truth. everything else is background noise, and that's what they're going to try to make it seem like. >> he's testifying under oath. charles coleman, always good to have you. nice to see you in person, especially. >>> what deal did speaker kevin mccarthy make to get a majority of democrats to help him pass a continuing resolution. was there a deal? and if there was, does that deal extend to protecting his gavel? >>> also, who is laphonza butler, the woman governor gavin newsom just tapped to fill the late senator dianne feinstein's seat. nne feinstein's seat nology for the newest vehicles. and we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech: don't wait-- schedule now. ♪ pop music ♪ >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ and we're done. hm, what about these? ♪ looks right. [sfx: spilling sound]

no recovery for donald as a result of the civil case being brought tomorrow by attorney general tish jamestorney>> this ruling is callea corporate death sentence by a number of people. you obviously are playing a key role in this, but you also are a lawyer. what will it mean for trump to lose control over several of his real estate holdings in new york? what is that actually look like? >> well, first of, all i believe that it is more than just several. once he loses the license within which to operate the good standing of the certificates of incorporation that make up what is called the trump corporation, this is not only the main company now going into the receivership, but there are hundreds of other subsidiary companies that additionally will ultimately go as part of the receivership. it is a financial catastrophe. it is the death blow to donald. and i will tell you. during my tenure at the trump organization, i can tell you that this has always been his biggest fear, that he would lose money, that he would lose all of his money, and he would no longer be considered the mega billionaire

trump is there without tish james. it appears that both sides lawyers are there.ing with the judge remains to be seen. as you know, earlier today, judge angoran put trump on the stand to ask what he was referring to when he spoke to the press about the person sitting behind him, when he was talking about michael cohen, when he was referring to a highly partisan person next to the judge or to the judge's law clerk. the judge after taking the testimony didn't find trump credible. fined him $10,000 against the repeated protests of all three trump lawyers present. whether that's what they're discussing remains to be seen. >> we will, i'm sure find out soon enough about what is going on inside that courtroom. lisa rubin, thank you very much. i know you're going to be on stand by for many hours to come with this news. thank you. >>> back to capitol hill where the house has elected a new house speaker, mike johnson, after three weeks. ali vitali joins us now. ali, lets get an update on our top story for today. >> reporter: the update is on our top story is they've got a

trial, so called wrapped up.raud >> but even some liberals are starting to question statede general tish james and her scheme to get trump. >> i think this was a tactical error on the part of attorneyti general james. she has already vulnerablecal en repeated to the repeated attacks that this is politically motivateksd, which of course we know it is. and breaking today, a partial win. team trump. when an appeals court halted a pajudge's order to cancel trump's business certificates in new york. appee also denying trump's request to put the entire trial on hold. meanwhile, the judge overseeing trump's classified documents case. another case has paused. litigation involving the classified materials while she reviews the trump team's request to extend the deadlineeu on the case. >> here with reaction, foxes legal analyst gregg jarrett and the author of get trump, harvard law professor alan dershowitz. greg, let me start with you. i'm confused. i'm sure the viewers are confused. up, down, good developments, bad developmentsco. >> what do you take away from this week in new york and the other cases

they had, it is not clear they would have gotten one based on the type of case attorney general tish james brought. a jury trial was never an option. the case made hard tore make as our legal blog notes. when you never ask for a jury trial. during another break today, trump told reporters that he would take the stand, quote, at the appropriate time. so he may soon find himself in an environment, uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous, legally for him. the facts matter and his perceived sense of being a victim does not. we would warn him to be careful what he wishes for. joining us is legal analyst lisa reuben, david jolly is still with us and joining me at the table is msnbc political analyst tim o'brien. there was drama on the house floor, but there was bigger drama in the courthouse behind you today. take us inside. >> reporter: the examination today or the court proceedings really focused on a gentleman named donald bender. he's is donald trump's former ld accountant and was previously responsible for the issuance of these statements of financial condition that are at the heart of this c

there was a press that we took yesterday from new york attorney general tish james who was talking about the things trump has said about her. he's called me venomous, he's called me racist, he's called me this and that, none of it matters inside the courtroom. i mean, this seems to be fani willis walking the walk, running her case, and notching another win today in the guilty plea of sidney powell. >> i got audio of a private fundraiser that fani willis hosted just a couple of days ago where she gave very unguarded comments about the personal toll this has taken on her. also, look, this plea deal is part and parcel of her legal strategy. if you look back at how she's prosecuted other big cases including the atlanta public school cheating scandal about a decade ago, there were a number of plea deals and guilty pleas that helped whittle down the defendant number. we are always going to ask how do they fit 19 co-defendants in one fulton county courtroom. that was never the plan. the plan was to always get these plea deals and whittle down those numbers. >> have we heard from chesebro? i kno

first of all, the judge and tish james, they just shake it off and let it roll.am certain that the a.g. and the judge, i hope, that they have security. every time he says these things, it's like setting fire on people who aren't well and who might be violent and do things. she was there because of the importance of the case and to provide support for her attorneys. she's not personally trying it. that's why she was there. he doesn't have to be there. he was there, as we know, to come outside and say things that he probably does not have the courage to say on the stand. he has a right not to testify, but this is a way of doing it without being held accountable. >> i'm curious if this trial impact's trump's present businesses as they are operating now in new york city? i know there's a receiver, a monitor they're going to figure out how to put in place. but anybody doing business right now with trump inc., would they have any concerns? would this impact his business negatively? would people not want to do business with trump given the ongoing litigation and what's

what i really enjoyed watching coming out of this trial this week is not just what tish james said tothe country, but what this judge ruled from the bench, in terms of this limited gag order. what he really said, he really drew the line, right? there's a certain level of criticism that any public official will take. >> right. >> but when you talk about people's staff with lies and innuendo, that's where he drew the line. he should have drawn the line. >> i like that it was a very limited gag order. >> right. >> specifically to people that work for him. if, for some reason, it has to be expanded out a little later on, it has to be expanded out later on. for the fools, and i've heard a few of them, running around saying that this is, you know, somehow, you know, the deep state going after donald trump, you know, this is horrible, you know, and on another network, the constant refrain was, well, if they do this to donald trump, they can do this to you. well, yes, they can do this to you if you defraud your state a quarter of a billion dollars. again, it's on paper. this is not like tryin

that have treated donald trump not like a president, like a regular citizen are fani willis and tish james critical. it is that lawsuit that goes at the heart of his business. fani willis is the only person getting people to flip in broad daylight that i can see. she and her investigation is going to be critical and i would argue an aid to the investigation jack smith is doing. i think there's been a lot of monday morning quarterbacking as it relates to these legal investigations into the former president, but the two folks that have managed to hold donald trump accountable and not treat him like a former president, like a regular citizen and meet the justice that he needs to meet are two black women, one in georgia and one in new york. >> yeah. >> tim, we just went through the lengthy catalog of legal woes facing donald trump. earlier in the show we also ran through some poll numbers. we know that trump's grip on the republican nomination seems secure. this polling to compare him with president biden, head to head pretty much dead even, the current president up slightly. the issues that a

but i will say he's called tish james, corrupt, racist and a monster.the whole time you've paid attention to the legal proceedings in your state or anywhere else, have you ever seen a defendant of any kind demonstrate this kind of attempts at witness intimidation, to intimidate the prosecution, judges and witnesses across a variety of venues? i've never seen anything like it on the part of mob bosses, psychopaths. he's the former president of the united states. >> if that happened in northwest florida, any of the federal judges there in a second would throw you in jail. you would be in jail for contempt. if you did it again, you wouldn't be getting out. >> how dangerous is it? >> trump supporters say there's a two-tiered criminal justice system. i would agree with them but not for the reasons they're saying. it's because trump is actually being treated better than other defendants. if anyone else did what he did, they'd be locked up a while ago. he gets a lot more deference because the last thing judges want is to be called political. also, if you look