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judge jeanine pirro, tell me a little bit about this lawsuit that bondi filed against tish james andjudge jeanine: tish james, governor hochul, and the head of dmv, department of motor vehicles. basically the president has already declared an emergency of the southern border. he has prioritized the immigration crisis. and the vast majority of americans support him in his efforts to curb immigration and get rid of illegals who are criminals. now what pam bondi and the department of justice have done is there suing new york state. last week they sued the state of illinois. they are suing them number one over the sanctuary city pol policies, as well as in new york what is called the green light law that was passed by the democrats in 2019. the green light law very simply is obstructionist. it basically says to any illegal, come on in, we will give you a license. we don't care what your record is. we don't even know what your record is peered come on and we will give you a license. point of information, a license is one of the identification point you can use to vote, okay, which is outr
judge jeanine pirro, tell me a little bit about this lawsuit that bondi filed against tish james andjudge jeanine: tish james, governor hochul, and the head of dmv, department of motor vehicles. basically the president has already declared an emergency of the southern border. he has prioritized the immigration crisis. and the vast majority of americans support him in his efforts to curb immigration and get rid of illegals who are criminals. now what pam bondi and the department of justice have...
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Feb 15, 2025
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tish james doesn't know what she's talking about, the reality is we need to get into the waste, fraud and abuse. last year improper appointments were $250 billion just last year. tish james doesn't understand what it means to actually be able to measure wealth and to measure financial success because she's the lady that said that mar-a-lago was worth $15 million and give me a break. >> a lot of people were shaking their heads, just look at red fin. congressman byron donalds. attorney general pam bondi is supporting the decision to dropped on air eric adams. and some are saying quid pro quo. hey, lg. >> a lot of political fallout after the doge's move to dismiss federal corruption charges against mayor eric adams. and ag pam bandy said the charges were politically motivated in the first place. >> we have a right to protect the weaponization-- against weaponization, and when did they start going after him? when he started criticizing the biden administration, criticizing them for the immig immigration. >> and democrats were fuming, with tom homan to open ryker's island. >> getting back
tish james doesn't know what she's talking about, the reality is we need to get into the waste, fraud and abuse. last year improper appointments were $250 billion just last year. tish james doesn't understand what it means to actually be able to measure wealth and to measure financial success because she's the lady that said that mar-a-lago was worth $15 million and give me a break. >> a lot of people were shaking their heads, just look at red fin. congressman byron donalds. attorney...
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Feb 15, 2025
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because i thought that tish james was very know.it was notable for me yesterday when she was asked about, you know, what is she what does she think should happen to mayor adams? should he be removed? should he not be removed? and tish james said, well, there are lots of conversations happening right now, and i don't want to speak until those conversations are are complete about the fate of the mayor. so i think there's a lot of people that are like, and you need to go. and the lieutenant governor has said that the mayor should step down or be removed. >> so. >> i mean, i don't know. i mean. >> it's up to kathy. >> hochul. >> and i. >> think the problem. >> from the prosecutorial. >> standpoint is, is that i don't know. that a state, a state. >> prosecutor can catch up to what. >> this investigation of adams has been going on for years. i mean, i think through multiple u.s. attorneys of both parties, this, this, this investigation has been going on. and so. >> i you know. >> i don't think the federal government obviously isn't going
because i thought that tish james was very know.it was notable for me yesterday when she was asked about, you know, what is she what does she think should happen to mayor adams? should he be removed? should he not be removed? and tish james said, well, there are lots of conversations happening right now, and i don't want to speak until those conversations are are complete about the fate of the mayor. so i think there's a lot of people that are like, and you need to go. and the lieutenant...
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Feb 13, 2025
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tish james has used donald trump and continues to use him with governor hochul as a platform for theirr voice, they -- you know, frankly we should bank them because their voices and their lawfare is why i'm sitting here and the president is in the oval right now. but it doesn't work. so here's the thing. pam bondi has had a very clear message to the executive order that the president signed that we are noting two have sanction jerry cities that immigration, safety, and the fentanyl crisis are going to be a priority that this administration can focuses on. so, when letitia james ignores it and when governor hochul ignores it and the dmv, we are going to come after you. you cannot do that. >> laura: well, they want to thwart this agenda any way possible but an important win, again, at least in one of these decisions today in massachusetts. alina, thank you very much. and, coming up, you got bright blue hair. you got white gloves, right? you got a lot of shrieking, this is the state of the resistance. because. trans resistance, they seem to be just losing their mind if they ever had much
tish james has used donald trump and continues to use him with governor hochul as a platform for theirr voice, they -- you know, frankly we should bank them because their voices and their lawfare is why i'm sitting here and the president is in the oval right now. but it doesn't work. so here's the thing. pam bondi has had a very clear message to the executive order that the president signed that we are noting two have sanction jerry cities that immigration, safety, and the fentanyl crisis are...
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Feb 14, 2025
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they're saying he's an oligarch, and tish james is saying, well, he wasn't vetted, and he shouldn't haveknow, treasury and its payment suspects. one of the arguments made many that montage there is that he's using spacex to put things up into space that aren't supposed to be there? will they stop at nothing? >> no, they've got to keep going until they can figure out a way the actually somehow control the narrative. the law's on trump's side, the narrative's on trump's side, and so is the issues. here's the beauty of emds, it causes the democrats, the liberal media to defend the indefensible. and at the same time, they also look completely irrational. so is guess what? if they keep on down this road, donald trump is going to be -- republicans are going to crush it in the midterms at the rate we're going. jackie: is there a medication for this emds? because they're melting down. >> i'm hoping there isn't. [laughter] jackie: ford o'connell, great to see you. >> thank you. jackie: thank you. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> i say this with all humor, if american democracy can survive ten years of greta thunberg's s
they're saying he's an oligarch, and tish james is saying, well, he wasn't vetted, and he shouldn't haveknow, treasury and its payment suspects. one of the arguments made many that montage there is that he's using spacex to put things up into space that aren't supposed to be there? will they stop at nothing? >> no, they've got to keep going until they can figure out a way the actually somehow control the narrative. the law's on trump's side, the narrative's on trump's side, and so is the...
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Feb 9, 2025
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tish james, who's. >> on that. >> enemies list. >> with me, higher ranking and deservedly so.fought for the. >> rule of law. the attorneys general. >> secured that second order. >> we got the first. >> one with the. >> good folks at public citizen. >> labor. >> american retirees and. >> others know we know that both donald trump and elon musk are petty little men. they're, you know, they're little bullies on the playground who are throwing their weight around as much as they can. but there are real consequences here for what they're doing to federal, to federal employees, to men and women in law enforcement in particular. the work you're doing is incredibly important, but help us get to the other side of it. what happens? are we looking for to try to create a permanent state of? no, you do not and will not have access to treasury? or is there some point where this breaks down and we're going to be right back at this again, meaning that you're you're looking at lawsuit after lawsuit to keep that going? i mean, because there's a sense from these, these petty little boys that the
tish james, who's. >> on that. >> enemies list. >> with me, higher ranking and deservedly so.fought for the. >> rule of law. the attorneys general. >> secured that second order. >> we got the first. >> one with the. >> good folks at public citizen. >> labor. >> american retirees and. >> others know we know that both donald trump and elon musk are petty little men. they're, you know, they're little bullies on the playground who...
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democratic elected officials, advocacy groups every day, americans, democratic attorney generals like tish jameso is doing her thing. it's an all hands on deck effort in the congress, in the courts and in the community. >> you mentioned attorney general james, new york, attorney general letitia james. she is now being sued. there is a lawsuit that's been filed by the justice department naming her specifically. what do you make of the tactics of the department of justice? pam bondi pretended during her nomination hearings that there would be no weaponization of the justice department. but now we have this happening, and also we have several resignations, you know, including some pretty conservative members of the eastern district of new york, because they refuse to drop the prosecution of eric adams. and also this question of trying to sue new york over immigration. what do you make of the justice department's actions toward new york? >> it's not clear to me why the administration is so focused, obsessed on the people of the great state of new york, as opposed to doing what they promised to do, w
democratic elected officials, advocacy groups every day, americans, democratic attorney generals like tish jameso is doing her thing. it's an all hands on deck effort in the congress, in the courts and in the community. >> you mentioned attorney general james, new york, attorney general letitia james. she is now being sued. there is a lawsuit that's been filed by the justice department naming her specifically. what do you make of the tactics of the department of justice? pam bondi...
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attorney general tish james going to fight back as kathy hochul calls this a worthless lawsuit is planingrent laws allow federal immigration officials to get acs long as they have a judicial warrant, so today we were out here in lower manhattan, john and sandra, because border czar tom homan met with members of the city council, you can see the picture, i'm told it went well, the focus on getting terminal migrants out of new york city. back here live, the mayor of new york city just wrapping up a meeting with border czar tom homan. homan said before that meeting he was not going to get on board he should get out-of-the-way so we will see how it goes, john peered. >> john: alexis mcadams with the latest from manhattan. alexis, thank you. the administration, sandra, has got so many compelling arguments on their side with the parents, these angel parents, whose children died so horribly, and so needlessly, unnecessarily, and yet the lawmakers on the other side just keep their heels dug in. >> sandra: and what a change this is for them, emotionally, for those families, to feel like they've go
attorney general tish james going to fight back as kathy hochul calls this a worthless lawsuit is planingrent laws allow federal immigration officials to get acs long as they have a judicial warrant, so today we were out here in lower manhattan, john and sandra, because border czar tom homan met with members of the city council, you can see the picture, i'm told it went well, the focus on getting terminal migrants out of new york city. back here live, the mayor of new york city just wrapping up...
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. >> court today with tish james, the new york attorney general, to stop an unelected billionaire, elons and wannabe stormtroopers from tearing up the treasury department. we know they're now in irs and committing what we all know is the largest data breach in american history. so what's happening is unelected people, not just elon musk and his army of hackers, but also tom cruise, the ceo of citrix. these tech barons are in the central payment system of the treasury department. they're seeing ratting. >> information. >> bank account information. they're seeing how payments get made to states. they have access to social security numbers, financial information about people living in our states. and so we need to take a step back and understand this is the largest hack, the largest data breach in american history, that's been allowed by president trump. and i think i think there's a temptation to make this overly technical. so let's put it this way. it's as if donald trump let's let's just say he came down to the studio right now and, you know, and he said, hey, ali, you're a good guy. i'
. >> court today with tish james, the new york attorney general, to stop an unelected billionaire, elons and wannabe stormtroopers from tearing up the treasury department. we know they're now in irs and committing what we all know is the largest data breach in american history. so what's happening is unelected people, not just elon musk and his army of hackers, but also tom cruise, the ceo of citrix. these tech barons are in the central payment system of the treasury department. they're...
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Feb 18, 2025
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uh, look, if you were going to go after tish james, the the attorney general here, if you were going to go after alvin bragg, the local da here, he's the guy that fought beauvais and todd blanche in that famous porn star hush money case. uh, you would likely do that through the southern district. and so you can expect to see many more fights here, uh, in the months to come. >> all right, noah shachtman, thank you so much. good to see you. a measles outbreak in the southwest expands, and health experts warn the outbreak could continue to grow. details next. >> cookbooks. >> corporate fat cats swindling socialites, doped up cyclists, then, yes, more crooked politicians. i have a feeling we won't be running out of those anytime soon. >> a new season of united states of scandal with jake tapper. march 9th on cnn. >> ah, it's a good day to cough. oh. >> no. >> bye bye. >> cough later. >> chest congestion. >> hello. 12 hours of relief. >> 12 hours. >> hmm. >> okay. not coughing at yoga. anti-king. not coughing. not coughing at the. >> movies. >> still not coughing. ah, mucinex dm gives you
uh, look, if you were going to go after tish james, the the attorney general here, if you were going to go after alvin bragg, the local da here, he's the guy that fought beauvais and todd blanche in that famous porn star hush money case. uh, you would likely do that through the southern district. and so you can expect to see many more fights here, uh, in the months to come. >> all right, noah shachtman, thank you so much. good to see you. a measles outbreak in the southwest expands, and...
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Feb 12, 2025
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. >> and then the civil fraud case brought by new york attorney tish james.odd blanche was the defense lawyer in that one of those cases. what does he think that federal cooperation was? and will he recuse himself from any involvement in that investigation? and then i'm also. >> looking. >> to see what he'll say about emil bove, who, as ken just noted, was his law partner and is now scheduled to be his deputy. ken and nbc news ryan riley reported yesterday that when he was a prosecutor in the southern district of new york, emil bovi was involved in fbi investigations of january 6th defendants. he's been on both sides of it now. what does todd blanch have to say about that? >> ken, tell. >> us more. >> about that. >> that january 6th investigation piece of. emil bobby's background. >> right. so bove is the acting deputy attorney general, and he's been the face of the administration's campaign to go after prosecutors and fbi agents who worked on january 6th cases. he wrote the memo ordering the fbi to turn over all the names of people who worked those cases. wh
. >> and then the civil fraud case brought by new york attorney tish james.odd blanche was the defense lawyer in that one of those cases. what does he think that federal cooperation was? and will he recuse himself from any involvement in that investigation? and then i'm also. >> looking. >> to see what he'll say about emil bove, who, as ken just noted, was his law partner and is now scheduled to be his deputy. ken and nbc news ryan riley reported yesterday that when he was a...
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Feb 15, 2025
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. >> tish james is the woman who tried to bankrupt the man who's now trying to save the country from bankruptcy. she can sit this one out. and since when is weeding out waste a dog whistle? it's not. bill clinton and barack obama were into weeding out waste to. how would this guy like it if someone stole his checkbook and wrote a check out for jose to get a sex change in guatemala? it's not racist to rip up that check. it's the right thing to do. democrats only strategy is to sing, swear and sue and try to turn trump against elon. >> elon called me. he said, you know, they're trying to drive us apart. i said, absolutely no. they said, we have breaking news. donald trump has ceded control of the presidency to elon musk. president musk will be attending a cabinet meeting tonight at 8:00. and i say it's just so obvious they're so bad at it. i used to think they were good at it. they're actually bad at it because if they were good at it, i'd never be president because i think nobody in history has ever gotten more bad publicity than me. i could do the greatest things. i get 98% bad publi
. >> tish james is the woman who tried to bankrupt the man who's now trying to save the country from bankruptcy. she can sit this one out. and since when is weeding out waste a dog whistle? it's not. bill clinton and barack obama were into weeding out waste to. how would this guy like it if someone stole his checkbook and wrote a check out for jose to get a sex change in guatemala? it's not racist to rip up that check. it's the right thing to do. democrats only strategy is to sing, swear...
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Feb 8, 2025
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let me thank new york and tish james and peter neronha, rhode island.ow, there's this sense that the president is flooding the zone. well, democratic aides are flooding it. back yesterday, friday, i was in federal court in boston on birthright citizenship. and then later in that day, we filed our motion to enforce on this funding freeze case. and then, of course, later we sued to stop elon musk and his tech bros. but in many ways, this funding freeze issue is the most dangerous. and you know who's feeling it the most? red states. red states are by far the greater takers of federal funding, particularly on education, for example, and law enforcement support. and you saw how quickly they rolled back that omb memo and claim to rescind that memo. it's because the phone started ringing off the hook. right. and my colleagues in red states said, wait a second. what are you doing? why is the red state? why is the head start payment portal closed? why is the medicaid payment portal closed? and the reason why this is this is so dangerous is because we've got a we
let me thank new york and tish james and peter neronha, rhode island.ow, there's this sense that the president is flooding the zone. well, democratic aides are flooding it. back yesterday, friday, i was in federal court in boston on birthright citizenship. and then later in that day, we filed our motion to enforce on this funding freeze case. and then, of course, later we sued to stop elon musk and his tech bros. but in many ways, this funding freeze issue is the most dangerous. and you know...
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Feb 18, 2025
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and i was in federal court with tish james, the attorney general of new york, on friday seeking a preliminary injunction. in that case, we already have a temporary restraining order. but the case in front of judge chutkan in d.c. is about the appointments clause. and so in the constitution, it says if you exercise significant authority, you've got to be confirmed. nominated by the president but confirmed by the senate. that didn't happen here. his appointment, his work is in utter violation of the u.s. constitution and the appointments clause. >> all right. now, as for the fate of this suit, as everyone who listened, almost everyone who listened to the arguments observed, judge chutkan seems skeptical of the argument you were making for the temporary restraining order on the basis of the fact that she indicated you had no specific or not enough specific evidence of harm to get that order, she said. you were basing it on media reports. what's your response to that? >> yeah. >> so i don't agree with that. obviously. i think she sees it the way we do on the merits and knows that the that doge an
and i was in federal court with tish james, the attorney general of new york, on friday seeking a preliminary injunction. in that case, we already have a temporary restraining order. but the case in front of judge chutkan in d.c. is about the appointments clause. and so in the constitution, it says if you exercise significant authority, you've got to be confirmed. nominated by the president but confirmed by the senate. that didn't happen here. his appointment, his work is in utter violation of...
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sense of what this does, what the effect is to the two new york officials, the new york state ag, tish james and the d.a. alvin bragg of new york. what does this mean for them? >> you know, i think that's something that has to be looked into, how much that's going to impact their daily work. but certainly there are instances when the local officials work with federal officials. right. that's something that there has typically been cooperation between federal before between federal and state governments. and, you know, the question is whether that's going to really continue in the trump administration and whether there's going to be that unity, because there are going to be these legal lawsuits going back and forth. now that's, you know, that's something that happens in republican and democratic administrations where depending on the attorney general, sometimes you're working with the government, sometimes you're working sort of against the federal government and suing the federal government. you can still work together in those different capacities. but, you know, that's i think right now th
sense of what this does, what the effect is to the two new york officials, the new york state ag, tish james and the d.a. alvin bragg of new york. what does this mean for them? >> you know, i think that's something that has to be looked into, how much that's going to impact their daily work. but certainly there are instances when the local officials work with federal officials. right. that's something that there has typically been cooperation between federal before between federal and...
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Feb 9, 2025
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the, the country has look especially the left is look for whether it was mueller or jack smith or tish jamesmany people that the country is looking for to rise to and we've had pieces of it. i think aoc has glimpses of it at times. she's very dynamic. she's all over the culture. you and i have talked about wes moore. i think he's a powerful, positive voice that can push back, but nobody's really coalesced around leadership yet. and i think that's starting to happen, especially in the streets and in the grassroots where it always comes from. >> it can be it can be elected. it doesn't have to be elected. but yeah, i would really like to see people just stepping up and taking shots. and what's good is that with social media, like you don't have to get booked. >> on tv. >> to. >> do it. >> this is a great point, anthony. >> what do. >> you think? >> i don't think that we need somebody like a barack obama, some generational. transformative figure. but at the very least, barack obama's political rise was in opposition to something that was a big mistake, that was a disaster for the country was bro
the, the country has look especially the left is look for whether it was mueller or jack smith or tish jamesmany people that the country is looking for to rise to and we've had pieces of it. i think aoc has glimpses of it at times. she's very dynamic. she's all over the culture. you and i have talked about wes moore. i think he's a powerful, positive voice that can push back, but nobody's really coalesced around leadership yet. and i think that's starting to happen, especially in the streets...
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Feb 14, 2025
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attorney general tish james is in court on a lawsuit around the federal funding freeze, and a rhode islandalso we have a contract. so one thing i'm very upset about is that same mayor adams that was on your a block, he won't go into court to say, this is our money, you owe it to us. >> well, this is and i have to. >> say, you are running for mayor. so, you know, full disclosure about that, right? you want. >> that job. >> but the. >> sitting mayor. spent today with. >> mr. homan. >> yesterday, he said he was going to ask for the money back, but he didn't ask for the money back. he just gave homan whatever he wanted. i mean, he is doing the bidding of president trump and not the bidding of new yorkers who need that $80 million on all kinds of other things. >> i mean, i also have to ask you. >> since. >> you're here, i mean, we just. watched multiple attorneys at the department of justice. including the southern district, the acting director. >> you know what. >> a big deal that office is. >> multiple attorneys and. >> main justice, the head of the criminal. >> division. >> the head of the p
attorney general tish james is in court on a lawsuit around the federal funding freeze, and a rhode islandalso we have a contract. so one thing i'm very upset about is that same mayor adams that was on your a block, he won't go into court to say, this is our money, you owe it to us. >> well, this is and i have to. >> say, you are running for mayor. so, you know, full disclosure about that, right? you want. >> that job. >> but the. >> sitting mayor. spent today...
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Feb 13, 2025
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announced that the department of justice is suing the state of new york governor kathy hochul and tish james, our attorney general, over immigration laws. you might notice one name is not on that list. can you guess who? new york city mayor eric adams, can you believe it? well, just this week, the department of justice ordered a u.s. attorney to drop all charges against him. and today, pam bondi sounded hopeful that mayor adams would be cooperative on immigration. >> we're hoping that in new york. >> mayor adams. >> is going. >> to. >> cooperate with us, with the sanctuary. >> cities and the. >> illegal aliens. that's what. >> we want. we don't want to sue you. >> we don't. >> want to prosecute people. we want people to comply. >> with the law. this is very simple. >> and this morning, the senate confirmed former democrat tulsi gabbard to be trump's director of national intelligence. senators also voted to advance rfk jr. s nomination for health and human services secretary to a final vaccinating his own children while building a following by hypocritically discouraging other parents from va
announced that the department of justice is suing the state of new york governor kathy hochul and tish james, our attorney general, over immigration laws. you might notice one name is not on that list. can you guess who? new york city mayor eric adams, can you believe it? well, just this week, the department of justice ordered a u.s. attorney to drop all charges against him. and today, pam bondi sounded hopeful that mayor adams would be cooperative on immigration. >> we're hoping that in...
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Feb 11, 2025
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tish james in new york who's taken the administration to court saying, don't, don't freeze these nihhere are democrats who have. been traditionally holding donald trump accountable. we have the 34 felonies because of the democrat in the district attorney's office. >> so i think there's still. that there's sort of the legal. >> part of it. the political part, i think is, is really interesting because what i see is a sort of i don't want to even say grassroots, but a real ground up sort of movement to correct the record, if you will. the american medical association has a youtube page talking about the bird flu and tuberculosis, because the white house won't. there are black professors that have a tiktok account that are actually teaching people about the issues that they're experiencing, because the administration won't do that. so i think there is there are sort of big d and small d democratic outlets that are fighting back in their own way. and we've talked before about this sort of micro politics that donald trump is really good at. and i think that's what democrats are learning, t
tish james in new york who's taken the administration to court saying, don't, don't freeze these nihhere are democrats who have. been traditionally holding donald trump accountable. we have the 34 felonies because of the democrat in the district attorney's office. >> so i think there's still. that there's sort of the legal. >> part of it. the political part, i think is, is really interesting because what i see is a sort of i don't want to even say grassroots, but a real ground up...
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that was new york attorney general tish james.those conversations behind the scenes? >> there's a lot of conversations that are i don't know what the attorney state attorney general is referring to, but i've been talking to everybody, and we probably going to have a meeting next week, but everyone's waiting to see what the judge does. and there is a dangerous precedent here. again, on whether or not you're going to allow policy and politics to decide who can go on trial after they're indicted by a grand jury. i mean, they're writing a law, an opening here, the law that a lot of people can defend. i know a lot of people that wish that, oh, all i have to do is announce i'm running for office, and you can't bring me to trial. i mean, this is the danger that they're running into, and it's going to wreak havoc, i think, on a lot of the process. i also think there's going to be a lot of pressure to see how you deal with this. in terms of whether he could be put aside, whether he stays, whether and i knowing eric, eric is going to run th
that was new york attorney general tish james.those conversations behind the scenes? >> there's a lot of conversations that are i don't know what the attorney state attorney general is referring to, but i've been talking to everybody, and we probably going to have a meeting next week, but everyone's waiting to see what the judge does. and there is a dangerous precedent here. again, on whether or not you're going to allow policy and politics to decide who can go on trial after they're...
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Feb 6, 2025
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and then what's called the civil fraud case by new york attorney general tish james.that's the case in. which trump, if that. >> case is upheld. >> would owe hundreds of millions of dollars to the state of new york for overinflating the value of certain of his assets or under inflating. >> them, as it were. >> when it is advantageous to him. the idea. >> that there. >> was federal cooperation with those cases is itself sort of presuming something that just doesn't happen to be true. was there an occasion on which the southern district of new york. >> that's the department. >> of justice's office here in manhattan, gave. information to manhattan prosecutors who are prosecuting the hush money case? yes, but i don't think that the evidence will show that it was somehow some cabal against president trump to like, hey. >> let's. >> give them all this stuff that we didn't use while trump was still president. and we decided. >> not to. >> prosecute him. there were processes followed. there were laws abided the idea that the feds were somehow implicated in each of these two s
and then what's called the civil fraud case by new york attorney general tish james.that's the case in. which trump, if that. >> case is upheld. >> would owe hundreds of millions of dollars to the state of new york for overinflating the value of certain of his assets or under inflating. >> them, as it were. >> when it is advantageous to him. the idea. >> that there. >> was federal cooperation with those cases is itself sort of presuming something that just...