she loves tj max and others and doesn't necessariy shop by bran. so rethinking retail and what retail should look like is a a concern in terms of the valuations of these companies and what they should do. in particular, macy's made need to close an incremental number of stores and kohl's needs better women's apparel so a long-term picture here. that being said -- >> you say that, but you look at ross and tj max and i love a bargain so i'm in there. going through the racks. a lot of time what i'm finding is bargains at kohl's, too i would put that in with discounters and liz, what happened i thought they were doing this big innovation by saying hey, if you've got amazon stuff, we're going to increase foot traffic did it just not pay off? >> it didn't the women's business was disappointing. i think the amazon return piece of things is working to drive qualified footsteps into the doors, but they're not converting into the women's department and it's difficult to turn kohl's without the women's business while they had flattish sales, kohl's and macy's