and tom bliley was the guy that kind of headed it up for me, and tom, you know, went through, and it was interesting because i kept talking to him. i said, well, how`re you doing? and you know, 52 people -- how are you winnowing this thing down? and i remember father -- father george from georgetown university was one of the leading candidates. and all of a sudden out of nowhere, kind of out of the catholic ranks, was this kind of undercutting thing that, well, we can`t have a lobbyist, and this guy is a lobbyist, so he won`t, you know, be a good -- couldn`t be a good chaplain. i thought, boy, there`s some deeds going on here someplace. somebody`s got some long knives out. and so the recommendations finally came down, and one of the recommendations was a fellow that was a swedish covenant minister, went to the north park college in illinois. and ted vandermead (ph), who`s one of -- my counsel, is on the board of north park. and you know, he was a good candidate, he thought. another was chuck wright, who worked with the pennsylvania legislature and was a presbyterian minister, did a l