all of the early founders of "close-up", and a guy named tom cigerard. it passed away several years ago. he was working with a broadcast company with washington. he was an early deal maker. if you go to his obituary, it mentioned that he was the early founder. without those of visionaries, -- they made it all possible. there is no one else in the world of television that commits one hour a week to hear from young people. >> you know the story better than i did. you should tell the story about the camera. >> c-span just got on the air. they were showing only what was going on in the house of representatives. >> with cameras owned by the house. >> they could not have anything else on the air except for the house session. our founder went to brian and said, what if we give you some cameras? which reminds covering some of close-up encounters? -- would you mind covering some of the close-up encounters? from there it just built and the relationship that stronger. >> i was working out of a bureau in the 1980 pugo. -- 1980's. we covered the kids on "close- up. i