you know, the interesting character to watch there is tom crone, the lawyer. that he's not going to be the fall guy here. and if they -- if the murdochs and news corp. try to lay everything on him, because he was the chief lawyer for "news of the world," he's not going to sit idly by. so if the brits are looking for a john dean character in all this, i would think that tom crone is the guy to watch, and the statement today contradicting james murdoch's testimony about that email is the first sign that he may in fact be willing to go there. >> nbc news national investigative correspondent michael isikoff. thank you for joining me tonight, michael. >> thank you, lawrence. >>> coming up, virginia governor bob mcdonald flip flops on the debt ceiling, even though he never actually understood what the debt ceiling was in the first place. that's in tonight's "rewrite." >>> and later, one of our favorite funnymen gets serious to deliver a very important message. stay tuned for stephen colbert's powerful anti-bullying video for the it gets better campaign. that's comin

when did you sack tom crone? >> we didn't sack tom crone. what happened with tom crone, when we made the very regrettable decision to close "news of the world" after 168 years, tom crone has predominantly been the "news of the world" lawyer. his status is now legal manager because of the situation at the "news of the world" he predominantly spent most of his time, in fact, pretty much 99% of his time on the "news of the world" and the rest of the company and the rest of the titles, we had appointed new lawyers and there wasn't a job for tom once we closed the "news of the world" and he left. >> someone is still dealing with the "news of the world" legal cases, though, presumably. >> yeah, the civil cases are being dealt with by, like i said, the first one is the standard's management committee we set up. you have seen announcements on that recently. i won't go over it. i know james and rupert talked about it. but also, we have some test cases coming up before the judge in january and there are people dealing with it. but tom crone's role was

why tom crone? >> what happened with tom crone is a very regreted decision after 168 years. tom crone has been a news of the world lawyer and within our legal manager the situation of the news of the world he spent most of his time in fact pretty much 99% of the time on the news of the world and the rest of the companies and the titles had been appointed new lawyers and people most news of the world and he left. >> [inaudible] >> i'm sorry? >> some still dealing with the news of the world -- >> yes, the civil case is being dealt with by, like i said, the first one is the standards management committee that we set up and we've seen the announcement on that recently and i would go over it and i know that jason is going to talk about it but also who has been doing the civil case is we've got some test cases coming up before the judge in january when there are people dealing with it, but tom crone's role as it was a hands-on legal manager at the news of the world and we ought to close the paper. >> i missed it might murdoch says he advised. >> how extensively did you have the pr

in the case of tom crone, his title was labor manager. he wasn't, as mr. sheridan pointed out, just journalists. in the case of tom, as i explained that he predominantly for the last few years had worked as the legal manager for "the news of the world" and, in fact, there's legal teams on all the other newspapers. so that was the current situation for tom. >> can i just ask you about neville philbin? did you know that when you were editor of "news of the world," did you know that he was somebody who was an inform aanto the police? >> no. >> you didn't know -- >> no. >> that he was a police informant? >> is that true? >> it's in "the evening standard." they quoted -- they quoted court reports dated back to 2000 when he said himself after a case the police were very impressed about the type of intelligence i was coming up with that was revealed in court and the judge said it was a substantial volume of information that was extremely useful to the police. it says also that sources close say, and this is a quote, people right at the top of news international we

i simply don't know. >> would tom crone? >> i simply cannot speak for them. >> and stuart kuttner? >> the same goes, mr farrelly. i simply can't speak for them. >> and rebekah brooks? >> i simply cannot speak for their knowledge. i know that mrs brooks, when she was chief executive, was one of the people who brought it to my attention as a new thing. >> i am just going to wrap up this questioning. we are left now in a situation where you, having looked into this affair and co-operated with the police, cannot tell us who lodged the file with harbottle & lewis, who was aware of its contents, and who kept you from being in full possession of the factsevidence that is clearly now being submitted to the police, but that clearly contradicts all the assurances that we were given, not in one but two select committee inquiries. i hope you would agree that that, frankly, is unsatisfactory. >> mr farrelly, i can say that the company at the time engaged an outside law firm to review a number of these e-mails. they were provided to the law firm, as i understand it. they were reviewed and an opi

so if you try to find a job for everybody why was tom crone -- why would you not find a job for him? >> there were some people that didn't want a job and in the case of tom crone, his title was news international manager and as mr. chariton pointed out it wasn't just journalists and was the secretary as many people in the news of the world. in the case of, as i explained, he predominantly for the last few years had worked as the legal manager for the news of the world and in fact the worker's legal teams. that was the situation of tom. >> can i just ask about mevel? did you know that when you were at news of the world did you know that he was somebody that wasn't a new form to the police. >> is that true? >> in the evening standard they quoted -- they've quote to the reports dating back to 2000 when he set himself after a case that the police were impressed with of the time of and the judge said it was a substantial volume useful to the police. it says also the source is the closest and this is a quote, people read the top of news international were aware of his wrong with the police

. >> tom crone said he did not know why he left news group newspapers. can you clarify why he was asked to leave after 26 years of service? >> well, last week the news of the world... two weeks ago, the news of the world published that paper, mr. crone was involved with the news of the world matters over the years, but the company believed and, the management of the company believed that it was time to part ways and i was not involved in those direct conversations and i cannot comment on the nature or content. i don't have knowledge of them. >> final couple of questions. the newspaper carried the story last week that news international subsidized andy coulson's wages after he left your employ. can you shed any light on that? >> i have no knowledge of andy coulson's agwages after he left the company's employment. >> and, finally, are you familiar with the term "willful blindness"? >> mr. sanders, do you care to elaborate? >> it is a term that came up in the enron scandal, the willful blindness is a legal term and states if there is knowledge that you coul

. >> so tom crone or les hinton? >> no.y were not the top legal officers. >> who are the top legal officers? >> you can answer that. >> mr. john chapman was the top legal officer of news international and mr. crone was head of legal affairs at news group newspapers. >> were you informed about the findings by your son or by rebekah brooks? >> i forget, but i expect it was my son. i was in daily contact with them both. >> okay. when were you informed about the payments made to gordon taylor and max clifford? >> no. >> you were not informed? >> no. >> at no point you knew that taylor and clifford made payments? >> i never heard. >> you never informed the chief executives that you authorized payment of half a million pounds -- i'd like you to tell me whether you had informed your father that you had authorized payment to gordon taylor as a result of him being a victim of a crime? >> the settlement with mr. taylor, and i'm happy to address the matter of mr. taylor in some detail if you would like. >> first just let me know -- >>

why is that not something for tom crone?se these jobs no longer existed at "news of the world". if you are trying to find a job for everybody at "news of the world" y did you not find a job for him? >> there are some people that didn't want a job. in the case of tom crone, he was legal manager and as mr. sheridan pointed out he drove secretaries of many -- in the case of tom as i explained he worked as manager of "news of the world" and the legal team on all the other newspapers. that was the current situation with tom. [inaudible] >> did you know when you were at "news of the world" -- somebody who was an informant to please? >> no. >> you didn't know? >> exactly. >> in the evening standard -- dated back to 2,000 when he said after a case that the police were interested in the intelligence that was revealed in court and the judge said it was a substantial volume of information that was useful to the police. and also that sources people at the top of news international were aware of these roles. >> i was not aware of the inf

company, what financial payments could other news international executives sanction to people like tom crone or rebekah brooks? >> generally speaking, generally speaking of the way the company -- the way the company would operate and the we any company would operate as within certain financial parameters or planning perspectives. we will look at a budget like a house would manage its budget and say how much money do we have to spend in a particular company or part of the company or department has to spend as long as they stay within those guidelines, as long as they stay within those guidelines to believe that they should be empowered to make those judgments to, you know, spend the money and achieve the and if they can. i don't have it on the tip of my finger the precise financial authority, but i can discuss after the committee hearing what exactly you would like to know and whether it is right to, you know, come back to that. >> what would it take, what level of the financial payout would it take to require those on the board of news corporation? >> i think for the full board is an the mil