we have former securities fraud prosecutor, tom curran. and we have alexandria ragi.xandria, i know that "new york times" story reads real bad for walmart and it's a heck of a piece of investigative reporting. but what i want to ask you is this, given these middlemen, who's the victim? if there is a bribery crime, who is the victim? that's the part i don't get. >> well, and i understand that, but the issue here is about free trade. you mentioned that yourself. and free trade says the best product at the best price. it's not about buying government officials. if walmart bought government officials to shoulder out the competition, then walmart's sure not the victim. >> but tom curran, do we know that? we really don't know anything yet, with it seems to me. we don't know whether walmart is guilty or not guilty. let's come back to the victim thing. if that's the tradition in mexico, that you have to have these middlemen to deal with -- you know, they can get your driver's license, they can get you a passport, and oh, by the way, they can get you a building permit, like in