as i asked tom goldstein, isn't it true, we have this wild card.oh, by the way, a massive investigation into the administration and the presidency of the man who is now going to put up his second name for the court. it's going to be an incredible calendar to watch. >> it really is. and then our summer just got a whole lot crazier. >> thank for pointing that out. >> crazy enough. no vacation time for you, brian. but the reason why i think this is going to be such a seminal moment in his presidency, the supreme court fights for republicans are such a part of their political culture. it is engrained in the right in a way that it is not in the left. it's a part of their dna. they understand the importance of a court seat much more than liberals do. liberals have a much less cohesive ideology. the right, on the other hand, they still feel the sting of bourque, of suter, of -- >> they use suter as a verb. >> they do. and clarence thomas, by the way, too. these supreme court fights were such climactic moments in their political identity. and, of course, i

tom goldstein, and we're so happy to have him, has been of counsel if over 100 cases before the court. importantly, he has personally argued 41 cases before the court. how many have you argued? there are only three people in the modern era who have argued more. in his spare time, is the publisher of scotus blog about the court and has taught at harvard and stanford law schools. thanks for coming up from d.c. on a friday night. >> thanks for having me. >> before we get to the list, what allows the president to say, i'm not going to ask them about roe? isn't the fact these have all been vetted to within an inch of their lives by the federalist society? >> the president did something very clever in that he turned to conservatives and said, you give me the candidates to start with. so these are really well known commodities going into the process. a lot is known about them including with respect to how they'd deal with these constitutional issues before he ever asks to talk to them. >> another question before we get into our lightning round of the names. the president's sister is not just

. >> joining me now, tom goldstein, cophoneder of the scotus blog and a msnbc supreme court contributornd chris matthews, host of "hardball" right here on msnbc. tom, let me get to you on what this shift -- what another trump appointment in replacement of kennedy -- would mean for the balance of power. when we talk about supreme court picks and supreme court cases invariably we go to abortion, the roe versus wade, to the longevity of that decision. a trump pick to replace anthony kennedy, does it have the potential to change roe versus wade as we know it? >> it's likely to. the question is whether roe would be overruled or instead reduced in its scope so states could pass abortion restrictions. it would be shocking if a nominee to replace justice kennedy wasn't more inclined to limit the scope of roe versus wade. so, too, with other decisions of those permitting affirmative action, and like you suggested limiting the death penalty. there are a bunch of these questions. while justice kennedy was conservative he was the limiting agent, the barrier to taking a big leap to the right in amer

tom goldstein at the court. coming up our friend steve schmidt weighs in along with the democratic judiciary committee. the planning is done for donald trump's summer sit-down with vladimir putin. the national security advisor a uns noing those details in moscow earlier today. stay with us. i'm ray and i quit smoking with chantix. in the movies, a lot of times, i tend to play the tough guy. but i wasn't tough enough to quit on my own. not until i tried chantix. chantix, along with support, helps you quit smoking. it reduced my urge to smoke to the point that i could stop. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. some people had changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, agitation, depressed mood, or suicidal thoughts or actions with chantix. serious side effects may include seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking or allergic and skin reactions which can be life-threatening. stop chantix and get help right away if yo

but tom goldstein is with me, our expert on the supreme court. i'm going to ask him to come in and join me here. tom, this is i guess not a huge surprise since justice kennedy was talking about this since last year. but how significant is a retirement by justice kennedy? >> we always knew it was a possibility because he served on the court for a long time. and it made sense for someone who was going to leave the court to consider doing it now before we get even closer to the 2020 election. it could not be possible to overstate the importance of this. you have it both in terms of how he has served as a justice in the past and been the swing vote on the court. but then immediately we start thinking about the near term and long-term future. this is really the chance for donald trump and the conservatives in the senate to cement a conservative supreme court for another 25 years because we tend to appoint new justices who are in their late 40s or early 50s now. but it is also a chance to move the court even further to the right because on a number of i

political reporter heidi przybilla and nbc supreme court contributor and co-founder of scotusblog tom goldstein. >> why do we have him on? >> hey, tom, i hope you brought your sudoku charts. keep your mind sharp while we talk about baseball. >> there might be a reason he's in we have a lot to get to, president trump and vladimir putin preparing to meet next month in person. >> what could go wrong? >> plus the president triples down on his attacks against harley-davidson. what he said yesterday about the iconic company. >>> but we start with the political battle lines already being drawn over the replacement for supreme court justice anthony kennedy. who has announced he is retiring. justice kennedy made that announcement yesterday saying he will step down at the end of the month. his decision paving the way for the most significant change in the high court's makeup in a half century. the move will allow president trump the chance to shape the court into a solidly conservative one for years, if not generations to come. despite his refusal to consider president obama's nomination of judge merritt

let's bring in a former law clerk of justice kennedy and tom goldstein. ant to start with you on this, tom. we're big fans of what you do. who do you think the top five are? >> sure. i'd start with the former kennedy clerk, brett kavanaugh. d.c. circuit. he's protege of ken star. very well known commodity. probably second amy barrett. a former law professor at notre dame. younger woman, has seven children. there was a lot of controversy in her court of appeals hearing about her catholicism. judge hard iman who came in second place last time. he no doubt will be back in play and a judge named ray kethledge. basically what you see is a lot of people from outside d.c. well known conservative kmodscommodi between the ages of 47 and 53. >> interesting. sam, the question might be, we've heard the statement being made he prefers an ivy league pedi debr pedigree. >> that's right. i mean i suspect what he most wants is someone who is going to please his base, especially the legal kw leg legal conservative movement. it could be helpful. >> who would you say, again,

nbc news justice correspondent pete williams joins us live from the supreme court, along with tom goldstein, nbc's supreme court contributor. pete, let's start with you. tell us about the ruling. >> reporter: sure. very narrow one. it applies only to jack phillips. he's a baker outside denver. he refused to bake a cake for a same-sex couple. two men who wanted a cake to celebrate their wedding they already had. they walked in. he said, sorry, guys. i can't do that. that'd violate my religious freedom. he basically made a first amendment freedom of expression claim. he said that the colorado law that says that businesses like his have to serve all comers would have violated his religious beliefs because baking a cake, he said, is an expres conduct, a work of art that expresses his views, and if he had to bake the cake, he'd be expressing views he doesn't agree with. now, interestingly, the supreme court dodges the question that he raised, about whether a wedding cake is expressive, just as kennedy said, most people who go to a wedding and look at a beautiful cake wouldn't think at all about

we're going t talk with pete a little bit more but 2019 bring in tom goldstein joining me now. he's also a writer. tom, not&tierl unexpected ruling coming down from these justices this morning no? >> not unexpected because as pete said the court had allowed the ban to go into effect. but a major controversy. the court explored what do about the president's fain muss tweets for example and the suggestion of them that there was a religious motivation here, an attempt to keep out muslims from the united states. and the justices said we have to look and see if there's any way we can you hold this without assuming that there's an antireligious or an opposition to a particular religion in the proclamations. the four more liberal justices in the supreme court firing off two separate discents arguing very strongly that there was a violation of the laws that congress had passed and also a violation of the constitution's establishment clause that this was an attempt to create a religious framework in the united states. >> it has been a year and change since the president first made this a

i want to bring in tom goldstein. pete, thank you for that. going to let you get back to reading that ruling. tom, this is a case that is one of the marquis occasions this term for the supreme court. we have a decision upcoming perhaps in the next couple of mondays in the president's travel ban. this is the other one we had been waiting and watching for. are you surprised by what the court has found here? >> no, because think the court was trying to find a middle ground here. justice kennedy has played a really leading role in creating a majority for the rights of same-sex couples at the supreme court. but on the other hand, clearly believes in the sincere religious views of people who are uncomfortable with same-sex marriage. so he was looking for a middle ground and the middle ground that he found was to say that in this one case the colorado government was hostile to the religious views of the baker, but that he can clearly see plenty of case where's there wouldn't be hostility. it would just be a neutral attempt to protect same-sex couples.

now we have an expert and wonderful colleague with this discussion so please join me to welcome tom goldstein. [applause] >> thank you on behalf of my colleagues and the panel so as the term wraps up, we actually know almost everyone here is looking to hear one thing that this is a simulation into the real world. [laughter] so that the sixth port appointee will be as follows but in terms of what will be talked about to reorient a little bit with major developments over the past term and talk about the implications of the kennedy environment for each of those areas of the law and in addition to allocate more time for questions so we can cover those issues so we will start off with the major cases of the term and the travel ban three-point oh and the director for the center of immigrants at the law school. >> thank you for the introduction i am is in state college at penn state university park a double milk into the alarm and i am deeply honored to and quite frankly because of the immigration statute. i am here to talk about the travel plan and hopefully will and with some good news. so on june

tom goldstein has argued 41 cases before the supreme court. is that true? >> that's pretty true. particularly on an eye deio logical question, the kinds of questions your viewers care about, abortion, affirmative action, gun rights, gay rights, he was the decider. >> put it another way, of all the justices who could have retired today, is this the most significant. is this a big deal? >> this is at biggest deal of a voluntary plausible retirement. because if any of the other conservatives were to retire you would get somebody just like them. justice kennedy has been holding back things to the right. things like gun rights and voting rights he is a conservative. but you can get somebody that's a lot more conservative. >> now we face this prepared of a supreme court without tony kennedy, who has been the deciding vote really for the last 12 years, ever since sandra day o'connor stepped down. she was often described as the swing vote. when kennedy stepped into that position you heard tom say he was the decider. some legal scholars said this chief justice is john roberts. but it's re

so please join me in welcoming tom goldstein. [applause] tom: thank you. on behalf of myself and for everybody on the panel, i want to thank each of you as well as the folks watching at home for contributing your time to this. at the term wrap-up this year, we actually know with all these experts, everyone here is looking -- almost everyone is looking to hear one thing and that this is all a matrix-like simulation and in the real world hillary clinton is the sixth democratic appoint jt to the supreme court as follows -- well, that's my hope. in term of what is going to be talked about, we have reoriented things a little bit. our hope is to cover both the major developments of the past term, of course, and also to talk about the implications of the kennedy retirement and the appointment of a new justice for each of the areas of the law that we're going to talk about. and in addition, we've decided to allocate more time for discuss so we can cover a lot of those sorts of issues outside the context of any individual case. and so we're going to start it off wi

there is a fellow named tom goldstein that the talent you did mention. when setha time waxman was giving an argument. three justices asked him questions at the same time. he just sort of stood back and said whoa. betty answered each question in order -- then he answered each question in order like it was the easiest thing in the world. tom does that as well. sometimes -- i would have fainted if somebody did something like that. some lawyers have fainted through history during oral argument. it's an amazing skill. >> i don't know if it is true that there is a story about a lawyer who argues before the court that he practices. if you and your sentence and pause and the justices asked the question, he practices causing in the middle of the sentence so as not to give them the opportunity to jump in. >> one thing this points out, it is hard to write really fast. the quality of the efficacy of the court is just fantastic. the questioning is fascinating. the justices are very good lawyers, able public servants. they are not typical of washington public servants

. >> tom goldstein, always good to have you. .huck, you, as well. thank you so mu of course, chuck will have a lot more this sunday on "meet the " pres >>> there's a lot more to get to, including the desperate afort to rescue members o youth soccer team trapped for days now inside a flooded cave inisthailand. morning, members of the u.s. military are joining that rescue attempt. nbc's kelly cobiella has that story. good morning. >> reporter: hi. good morning, willie. this really is a desperate situation now. the water rising 6 inches an hour overnight. the team and theiroach have been trapped somewhere in this huge flooded cave system for six days no rescuers still don't know where they are. this morning, a team of 30 from s. pacific command are in the mountain jungle of northern thailand to help look for 12 missing schoolboys and their coach. >> we're able to run 24-hour operations, and we have fks to assist the thai authorities. >> reporter: the group went missing saturday after a soccer match. th went to the cave for an adventure. they'd been the

>> chuck todd is here in new york to talk about the politics of this, from washington, we got tom goldstein he's the founder of the potus check. i know you know everything there is to know. for folks that don't follow it as closely, explain why this particular retirement is such a big deal. in the past you had a liberal replacing a liberal. a conservative replacing a conservative. this has the potential to reshape the court. >> that's exactly right. justice kennedy is the vote in the center. he's a conservative. on questions of do you permit affirmative action, can same sex couples get married, he was the one that would join with the liberals sometimes. now president trump and conservatives have the chance to make a really solid five justice conservative majority that can change the law in those and other areas. >> i was going to say, tom, that's the issue for a lot of people. they look at the abortion ruling, the gay marriage ruling, depending where you sit. you'd like to see some big change there. is it possible the court could reverse those decisions? >> well, anything is possible. and t

. >> and you know, tom goldstein, everything is at stake, much of which kennedy was the swing vote forrmative action, things that are sort of hanging in the balance in part because he was there. he had some pretty terrible rulings. this week, he ruled in favor of some things that were disturbing like the muslim ban but i am kind of a little obsessed and fascinated in a negative way with the courting of kennedy, with the way he was plied by the administration, by placing people who were his former clerks into judgeships to reassure him that it was fine to step down and give donald trump this gift he's given him. i think his legacy is that he gave donald trump this. and when you then find out, according to this piece in "the new york times," that donald trump, moments before his first address to congress, in february of 2017, paused to chat with justice kennedy. say hello to your boy, trump said. special guy. trump was apparently referring to justice kennedy's son, justin. the younger mr. kennedy spent more than a decade at deutsche bank, rising to become the head of global real estate c