to me happened when tom stier, the billionaire who wants to be -- running for governor, refused to endorsen. wanting to, it's clear, he's thinking about what does it look like in a democratic race, primary some day in california, is it better to have been neutral or with sanders than with clinton? >> to me, that comes from, look at the factorability numbers among democrats. even the people voting for hillary, they're extraordinary. they're sky high. i think people, even people going for hillary for a whole bunch of reasons, there is an admiration for the message and what he has done. >> let me quickly end on tonight's circus. because that's really what this split screen we're going to have of a debate and then across town, this trump thing. dan, we were talking off camera, probably the most -- the theory i've heard, you put out the best, donald trump showing up in the spin room post debate. that's the theory i'll hang my head on. >> that makes the most sense to me. he can't bust himself into the debate, particularly when he has novembe another event. he takes over the spin room any way, an