. >> was it tommy frank's responsibility to speak out and say we need more troops? >> i don't know what time he did or did not. they were focused on trying to see if they can do it with a minimum number of troops. they could. baghdad fell quickly. the iraqi army is not what it was years ago. once it fell, it didn't mean the conflict was over. >> general, you speak and write candidly in the book, february 5th, 2003, the day you remember as much as your own birthday for all the wrong reasons. the initial case was a disaster. incoherent and coming from the vice president's office instead of a lawyer's brief rarp an intelligence briefing. what changed between that case and february 5th, 2003, where you felt comfortable? >> the case there was in the national intelligence estimate that went to the congress four months earlier, but the prohibitation of the case in the white house was not coherent. i couldn't connect things and the cia wouldn't stand behind it. i wasn't troubled because of the national intelligence estimate. congress baseded on that nationvoted overwhelming

tommy franks being exhibit-a, didn't understand the war he was fighting, thought that taking the enemy's capital meant the war was over when in fact in both iraq and afghanistan is when the war really began. >> suarez: you give us chapter and verse of examples of people who truly needed to be fired and eventually they were. it really turned things around. i mean, some theaters it was really essential. give us some examples. >> one of the great examples that i like is ridgeway in korea. it's a small unpopular largely forgotten war now. ridgeway goes in late in 1950. in three or four months really turns the war around. reinvigorates the american operation, gets a bunch of new commanders in. >> suarez: you tell a story of an army that transitions from a time when generals can and do get fired. i mean, abraham lincoln went through a lot of them. to an army that's very, very reluctant to do so. will look for almost any other option we'll sides doing so. what about the future? are we reexamining now? are the young intellectuals, the lieutenant colonels and colonels who will be tomorrow general

and so tommy franks is not an aberration, he's not an anomaly, he's exactly what the army was trying to produce in the 1970s and '80s. which it turns out was a jumped-up battalion commander who doesn't understand generalship, who thinks taking the enemy capital is the end of the war, and he spikes the ball on the 20-yard line and goes home. back to football. >> we did start with baseball, right? i mean, it wasn't -- >> i don't know, i'm not even a football fan. i'm a baseball fan. [laughter] >> okay. here. >> yeah. peter adam, i'm a defense contractor and a vet. i served with the 101st. it was a little after the battle of baston. you touched on something earlier that i'd like you to sort of expound on, and that is you talked about the difference between management and leadership, and you've mentioned harvard business school a couple different times. and i heard commanders when i served on active duty in the army talk about management by objective and sort of the business school, you know, approach to things. do you think that that's something that has undermines the kind of generalsh

there is frank sinatra junior with the tommy dorsey orchestra. and joe almost hit me. can't say on this interview the expletives that he came out with. he was very upset. you didn't want to upset joe. i said don't worry about it it's just a coincidence. eventually he calmed down. then we ran out of money. so we had to kidnap frank sinatra junior to get back to la. >> around 9:30 p.m. on the freezing night keenan and a very nervous joe crept up to the room and inside frank junior and trem peter john fox had just finished dinner before that night's show. >> raised my hand to knock on the door and joe yells no. no. i looked at him and said that's why we are here. i knocked on the door and frank sinatra said come in. >> said he had a package for frank jr. walked in put the box down on the floor and when he straightened up took his glove off and he had a small revolver in his hand. >> cocked it in front of junior's face, and i said nobody move, nobody will get hurt. >> at that point he made us go lie down on the floor. tied upjohn fox and i said joe would you take mr. sinat

frank sinatra, jr. >> the 19-year-old son was attempting to forge his own career and had recently behe gun singing with the tommyorsey orchestra. >> he sang all of his dad's songs. >> john foss played trumpet in the orchestra. fox files tracked him down to his home in maine. >> he just wanted to be like him. >> but what made the younger sinatra such an appealing at&t target for keenan? >> because he was slight of build so if he tried to run or something we could contain him without hurting him. and then i -- his father was well known for being a tough guy and hanging out with the mob. and thought that he could handle the stress. so i started writing a business plan for this affair and i called it the plan of operation just like i would if i was doing a real estate deal. >> his new you plan of operation would require some seed money but keenan was broke as a result of a car accident. >> disabled me pretty significantly. i got addicted to pain medication. i was already an alcoholic. and so my thinking was not very clear. >> barry keenan may have been down and out but his good friend dean torrens was flush with cas

frank sinatra, jr. >> the 19-year-old son was attempting to forge his own career and had recently behe gun singing with the tommyorsey orchestra. >> he sang all of his dad's songs. >> john foss played trumpet in the orchestra. fox files tracked him down to his home in maine. >> he just wanted to be like him. >> but what made the younger sinatra such an appealing at&t target for keenan? >> because he was slight of build so if he tried to run or something we could contain him without hurting him. and then i -- his father was well known for being a tough guy and hanging out with the mob. and thought that he could handle the stress. so i started writing a business plan for this affair and i called it the plan of operation just like i would if i was doing a real estate deal. >> his new you plan of operation would require some seed money but keenan was broke as a result of a car accident. >> disabled me pretty significantly. i got addicted to pain medication. i was already an alcoholic. and so my thinking was not very clear. >> barry keenan may have been down and out but his good friend dean torrens was flush with cas