hugo lowell and tommy vitor, co-host of pod save the world and coauthor of democracy or else, how to n in ten easy steps. we have to talk about that book at some point, tommy. we have to save democracy. if it's ten steps, i'm with it. i want to come to the table first. i want to get you the head of the columbia school of journalism. i love reminding people you are the boss columbia school of journalism. how the debate went. david and linsy davis. >> they were consistent. they were professional. and you know, one of the narratives has been around how frequently donald trump took the bait from kamala harris. i think one of the lesser discussed things is the fact that the moderators never took any bait. that they continued -- when he deflected, they would follow up. you know, and that's one of the other things that people fail to do. often with donald trump. you know, he will give a nonanswer and just move on to the next question. they didn't do that. they did a judicious amount of fact checking. so, it wasn't intrusive. and they were like a referee in a boxing match, where, you know, yo