at the time of the gulf of tonkin affair. but hanoi refused an invitation to come to the security council to talk about it. the distinguished secretary-general of the united nations considered a peace mission himself to bring about peace. but hanoi and peiping told him not to come. britain has made many efforts to find a path to a settlement. first by working toward a new conference in geneva and then by a visit of one of their senior statesman, mr. patrick gordon walker. but the effort for a geneva conference has thus far been blocked, and mr. gordon walker was told that he should stay away from hanoi and peiping. the commonwealth attempted to send a committee of the commonwealth to several capitals to explore the possibility of peace. we welcome that initiative but hanoi and peiping have told them not to come. we made a number of efforts on our own, both publicly and privately. president johnson in baltimore, for example, offered unconditional skidiscussion wit the governments concerned. but hanoi and peiping called this of

after 1964 during the gulf of tonkin, as the professor will talk about where you have the first of the shooting between north vietnam and the american navy. this convinces the chinese that they had to commit troops to north vietnam as well. and they have to do this because they're afraid, well, maybe the americans might come into north vietnam. but for chinese troops there, probably they won't. the chinese also started making preparations to fight the americans if they had to. when the u.s. sent major combat units into vietnam in april of 1965, the north vietnamese leaders also feared that they might get an intervention in north vietnam. again, they're looking at korea. the ghost of korea hangs over both sides here in thinking about what to do. and so in april 1965, the chinese give the order to send troops to north vietnam. and between 1965 and 1969, there are 320,000 chinese troops that serve in north vietnam. at one time there's as many as 170,000. this is critical in many ways. to the north, they want these chinese troops because the more chinese troops there are in north vietnam,

efforts to give him additional war making powers were rejected given the experience of the gulf of tonkin resolution and the president's war making powers unless it was very clear and urgent and the need was overwhelming. >> what role did you play, if any, in shaping legislation that made it harder for the government to undertake illegal water tapping? >> no, i was not part of that. i helped to draft an amendment that was adopted that required notice to congress before covert actions could be undertaken but that was not necessarily a result of the watergate revelations as much as the revelations of the church committee. >> was that -- this is the -- >> yes, this is an amendment to legislation that created the -- may have created the intelligence committees. >> i see. liz, is there any other anecdotes you'd like to oh preserve for the library? >> well, i'm sure more will come to mind but -- oh, yeah. the only other one i'd like to mention is -- you asked about my election and campaign for election to congress and i was very much opposed to the war and when i got to washington -- i think ju

after the election making him secretary of state, so in 1964 before the election he helped to get the tonkin gulf resolution through. the problem is that rusk, who had been so neglected and even ridiculed by the robert kennedy wing of the white house under jack kennedy, he had a resurgence under johnson. johnson felt he hadn't been taken seriously, and he felt rusk -- people who watched said his accent got more southern month by month when he was dealing with lyndon johnson. so, fulbright turned and saw the error of what we were doing and became one of the leading influential critics and it's at that point that lyndon johnson stopped talking about him as my secretary of state and started talking about him as precentor. >> you talk about the bundy brothers, in particular george bundy. it allows more of his brother william bundy. what was his role? >> william bundy was the older brother and it irritated him that he was oftentimes thought to be the younger brother because his position wasn't as eminent. this deck which brother? >> bill. she died months ago not long ago. >> he joined the cia in

this is not a tonkin gulf.his is an enormously distressing context in which tens of thousands of people have suffered. and so, i would be reluctant to make those kinds of comparisons. host: neil is in fort lauderdale, florida, an independent. caller: good morning, folks. sir, i applaud your efforts and those of your agency. what perplexes me is our involvement, whether it be syria, afghanistan, iran, iraq. it seems we are in a position where we are being forced to change a cultural mind-set, which is systemic. i don't think we have a good handle on the genesis. it's a very difficult to accomplish. we could pump dollars and bullets and give them all sorts of aid. but if anyone at your institute -- has anyone at your institute ever paid close attention to the origins of all this and take a cycle social? look social? because it is very difficult to change a cultural mind-set that has been ingrained in these folks thousands of years. guest: you know, you are right. if we imagine that one of the obstacles to a confl

that the court as a matter of law could split the baby in this regard saying that the mandate is tonkin's -- unconstitutional to the extent it exceeds coverage for catastrophic and use that several ability or is it an all or nothing proposition? >> i think it has to be all or nothing. they are not going to rewrite the law to do something congress did not intend to do. i do nothing there is anything constitutional bar requiring you to buy catastrophic health insurance or anything. my only parliament -- my only point was, i investing your. it will come back in the next time it will be this is unique. is this not really unique that these health a 30-year olds can come into the market and all of a sudden be a big burden on society. among the other points i was making was, if we are going to create exceptions and uniquely compelling need arguments where we will bend the rules and the language of the commerce clause, congress is going to show us that they really are trying to address the unique aspects of this. i made the point i made earlier which was, surely if congress was really worried abo

that the court as a matter of law could split the baby in this regard saying that the mandate is tonkin's -- unconstitutional to the extent it exceeds coverage for catastrophic and use that several ability or is it an all or nothing proposition? >> i think it has to be all or nothing. they are not going to rewrite the law to do something congress did not intend to do. i do nothing there is anything constitutional bar requiring you to buy catastrophic health insurance or anything. my only parliament -- my only point was, i investing your. it will come back in the next time it will be this is unique. is this not really unique that these health a 30-year olds can come into the market and all of a sudden be a big burden on society. among the other points i was making was, if we are going to create exceptions and uniquely compelling need arguments where we will bend the rules and the language of the commerce clause, congress is going to show us that they really are trying to address the unique aspects of this. i made the point i made earlier which was, surely if congress was really worried abo