i went to chicago, i met tony accardo, i met everybody in chicago. i came home, everybody was satisfied, and we made atlantic city. rosemary: there are some people out there, some critics, i suppose, who say that you were not truly the boss, that maybe you were an underboss fronting as the boss. what is your reaction to that? ralph: who said? well, first of all, i was never an underboss. i was a boss. dan: well, the fbi says he was the boss. the u.s. government says he was the boss. and the judge that sentenced him said he was the boss. rosemary: dan, it seems as though part of your intrigue, a big part of your intrigue with ralph natale, is his relationship--was his relationship with jimmy hoffa. dan: well, you know, it was. i asked him about jimmy hoffa. he pulls out a picture, the only picture confirming jimmy hoffa's relationship with the mafia was a picture of ralph and jimmy hoffa in washington dc. ralph: he made one mistake in his life when he decided that he wanted to take back the teamsters. i knew he was headed for the great--for the ground