ryan grimm and tony fratto are still with us, carol, this is a big hunk of a tax grab. that's the way i see it. >> they call it the fairness act. it's not about fairness, it's about taxation. this is going to kill small businesses. we already have small businesses trying to co-- trying to comply we need to get then expanding their businesses and not doing paperwork. >> in terms of damaging the small business. the small business sets up an e-commerce internet website. now they go direct, whoever buys buy, whatever state you pay the tax if you are crossing state lines you do not pay tax. they have to have lawyers now, accountants and -- >> 9600 jurisdictions that they have to keep track of. and each one had that is a different set of rules and regulations. i hear the argument, it's not a big deal that someone will figure it out with software, it's not about the software, it's about compliance and aud auditing and small businesses spending time on paperwork instead of getting back to work. >> i feel it's a tax grab. what bothers me is you may favor that tax grab. that is m

tony fratto is former bush white house deputy press secretary. it's good to see both of you. with you, because you've been involved in these budget negotiations. where do you even begin, and how, when it seems like you're going to have two budgets this far apart, can you start to look for compromise? >> well, you're right, it's tough. and it's tough when you have, in our system, when you're trying to do a budget with one house controlled by one party and the other house controlled by the other party. and what you're going to end up, with budget proposals, are really aspirational documents that are probably dead on arrival in the other house. and that's where we are right now. but hopefully where they are, if there's enough goodwill on both sides to hopefully get a budget resolution that they can work on together, and compromise on. because, otherwise, chris, we're at risk of having, you know, more hopes than budgets over the past, you know, four or five years. so, it would be nice if they can get together and actually negotiate a budget. >> well, paul ryan has come to the podi

let's bring in jonathan martin, danielia, gibb-lachey, and tony fratto, a man with threatening e-mails>> i speak softly and carry a big apple. >> there's a saying in washington if everyone is unhappy with a deal, then maybe it's a good deal. sequester is turning into one of those things. methinks everybody doth protest too much. everybody says that, but their actions were not that of a set of leaders set on -- >> the entire congress comes back during the holidays, and biden and mcconnell wire an 11th hour deal to basically make the tax increases not as large as they would have been. there was a real sense of a i alarm, a sense of urgency that you don't see now. this is why, chuck, a lot of folks, frankly can't stand washington, because think about the amount of workers that are having their jobs in jeopardy, real-world impact, and compare this now to the aren't sill during the fiscal cliff. it's a stark contrast. >> and during the government shutdown, it was like there was a sense that everybody would do everything they can to prevent it. then in july it was debt ceiling, they came up

karen finney and tony fratto. good conversation.nging it. >> thanks. >>> a new alarming report says the u.s. better get ready for more katrina-sized hurricanes. where and why next. >>> also, we want to hear from you. head over to facebook and like us to keep the conversation going. [ female announcer ] switch to swiffer sweeper, and you'll dump your old broom. but don't worry, he'll find someone else. ♪ who's that lady? ♪ who's that lady? ♪ sexy lady ♪ who's that lady? [ female announcer ] swiffer sweeper's electrostatic dry cloths attract and lock dirt, dust, and hair on contact to clean 50% more than a broom. it's a difference you can feel. swiffer gives cleaning a whole new meaning. and now swiffer wet and dry refills are available with the fresh scent of gain. and now swiffer wet and dry refills [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsma