i read a lot of tony hillerman. i read everything i could. and then i started doing the interviews and then finding the people to be interviewed was a whole process itself. virtually everybody was very willing, more willing than i expected although it was a hard nut to crack to get under the -- some of the nations, the seneca in upstate new york, because one woman told me, we don't trust white journalists and they get everything wrong and my background is journalism. so it took me, i guess, four years that i'm an okay person and i made a lot of compromises along the way. but by then i knew a lot more, too. and i always tried to say more or less, i'm just an empathetic ear, you know, just say what you want. and i'll listen. and virtually everyone talked and talked and talked. and i have to say it was i ronn -- ironic is that they have a great oral history and to be in a way to the oral historian to some people was kind of strange. it was also -- i felt very honored that they would talk to me. >> well, you mentioned the shawnee in new york. tha

i wrote a lot of tony hillerman's, everything i could, and then i started doing interviewed and finding the people to be interviewed was a whole process itself. virtually everybody was very willing, more willing than i expected, although it was hard nut to crk to get under the nations in upstate new york because this one woman told me is we don't trust white journalists because they get everything wrong. my background is journalism. it took me four years to convince her i'm an okay person. i made a lot of compromises along the way, but i knew more then too. i always tried to say more or less i'm an everyone thetic ear. you know, say what you want, and i'll listen, and virtually everyone talked and talked and talked, and i have to say it was ironic because if there's anything one knows about native traditions is that they have a great oral history, and for me to be in a way the oral historian to some people was kind of strange. it was also, i felt very honored that they would talk to me. >> well, you mentioned the ashawnee in new york. that struck me as an interesting story of a tribe be