and they had middle of the road music that mitch miller, before his tv show, was the definition of a great a & r man. they had johnny mathis and tony bennett and jerry vail. >> imus: was bob dylan there then? >> bob dylan was there, primarily known has a songwriter. >> imus: how about -- >> and simon an garfunkel record just came out, the single, the sound of silence. >> imus: they have to be thinking e oh, god, here's a guy named president of the company, just another lawyer. who is head of a & r. >>> how did you become clive davis? >> i listened. you don't have to be an instant expert. i observed, watched. i learned if you're doing tony bennett. if you're doing andy williams. if you're doing percy faith, you don't know what's happening in the contemporary sounds. you're living in your own universe. a year later i found myself at the mom and pop festival. >> imus: how did you wind up there? >> i made a deal with lieu adler. >> imus: another great record producer. known -- >>> he lived a mystique. he did ultimately the mamas and papas. i made a deal with him on our first record. a artist called scot scott mckee but the song, if you