i mean, tony podesta we talked about before, a democratic lobbyist, talked about how great it is that laws are so complicated now. the context was i think it was dodd-frank or it might have been in health care, there are these tiny little loopholes. they go on for thousands of pages. and if you can be a lobbyist or a lawyer at a firm who can understand this much and you're getting paid, you know, tens of millions of dollars, but you're probably saving your clients, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars, sometimes more. so, it's very cost effective. i mean, the complete arcaneness of this world is again, very, very good for business. >> let's quickly run through some of the roll call of influence peddlers that you write about. billy tauzin. >> billy tauzin was a former democrat, became a republican congressman. went on to become the head of the -- one of the top pharmaceutical lobbies in the country. >> after, in the house, overseeing the drug industry, chairing the committee that oversaw the drug industry. and he was crucial in passing the medicare prescription bill, which has mea

he's worth a lot of money, his brother's actually tony podesta who's the president of the podesta group the largest lobbying groups in d.c., so there are questions for the administration for someone who claimed to be against that secret money that he has hired someone who is affiliated with, who the president is critical of. it's inconsistent for the president to bring him on. jon: he was at the white house when the monica lewinsky mess was plaguing the clinton administration. maybe that's a connection there. he comes also as a guy named pete rouse is leaving the white house. he's been the president's adviser for, well, back to the time when he was an illinois senator. here's a picture of rouse. "the new york times" points out mr. podesta and mr. rouse share some similarities. both are older than the 52-year-old president, mr. rouse is 67, mr. podesta nearly 65, and are said to be able to speak candidly to him, much like party elders. both also have far more experience, washington experience, than mr. obama. so this is a case, maybe, of a gray beard coming in to steady an administration