then away from the tory party. then you've got two small parties that can't do anything. better. tory party do better. >> how about that responsible? >> final word to benjamin. final word. >> the tory party doesn't stand for had all these for anything. it's had all these different last different versions in the last 13 got it across the 13 years that got it across the line general elections, but line in general elections, but now got all these now you've just got all these different factions elected under different factions elected under different they've different leaders and they've got little. different leaders and they've got the little. different leaders and they've got the argument would be, again, >> the argument would be, again, whilst i think that is objectively true, obe, this objectively true, the obe, this is happens after you've had is what happens after you've had 13 years in power. you need to take a break. see take a break. let's see how labour do know for birds labour do you know for the birds whether do any whether or not they do any better. look, thank

then away from the tory party. then you've got two small parties that can't do anything. better. tory party do better. >> how about that responsible? >> final word to benjamin. final word. >> the tory party doesn't stand for had all these for anything. it's had all these different last different versions in the last 13 got it across the 13 years that got it across the line general elections, but line in general elections, but now got all these now you've just got all these different factions elected under different factions elected under different they've different leaders and they've got little. different leaders and they've got the little. different leaders and they've got the argument would be, again, >> the argument would be, again, whilst i think that is objectively true, obe, this objectively true, the obe, this is happens after you've had is what happens after you've had 13 years in power. you need to take a break. see take a break. let's see how labour do know for birds labour do you know for the birds whether do any whether or not they do any better. look, thank

we've been discussing sir keir starmers tory party leadership and tory party leadership bid, and you'veen sending in your views. he i could never views. he says, i could never vote for care i simply do not vote for care as i simply do not know exactly what where he stands don't think he stands now. i don't think he does either, actually. and brian , the are working on the , the tories are working on the philosophy keep your friends philosophy of keep your friends close and enemies closer. close and your enemies closer. there follows a public there now follows a public service announcement. there apparently on your apparently appears on your television screen a qr code which allows you to vote for mr nigel farage. may i encourage to do this in the interests and safety of the nation? thank you. now, i'm afraid it's that time when i must pull out the wonderful list that debunks many of the claims the british medical association makes about junior doctors as they announced the longest strike in nhs history . today, doctors will be history. today, doctors will be engaging in an accumulative

i mean, it's the tories a adding�*ry party. the problem for labour party on problem for the labour party on immigration, there is no easy answer is that is the truth . answer is that is the truth. >> there no. so you've got to >> there is no. so you've got to avoid false promises. yvette cooper vote shredder, absolute vote shredder for labour disaster i if i were keir starmer, i'd stick her on catapult. >> i'd send her to rwanda. >> i'd send her to rwanda. >> she shredded james cleverly who we know she hasn't. we know . who we know she hasn't. we know. we know doesn't agree with the rwanda he calls it. but rwanda plan. he calls it. but she's terrible. who she's terrible . terrible. >> and the election is when windows, i suspect october. yes, yes. but certainly that's what the pm is suggesting. long terme i think october, november. >> i think we might see the party conferences and extort them. >> and because they make money them. >> of|d because they make money them. >> of|d b> of|d b

labour party is a broad church. the toriescall broad church. call themselves a broad church. i wonder sometimes as i just wonder sometimes if as a mainstream political party you i just wonder sometimes if as a mainsbeam political party you i just wonder sometimes if as a mains be too3olitical party you i just wonder sometimes if as a mainsbe too broadil party you i just wonder sometimes if as a mainsbe too broad a party you i just wonder sometimes if as a mainsbe too broad a church.»u could be too broad a church. some people said that about some people have said that about the party over years. the labour party over the years. i'm wondering it's true i'm wondering now if it's true of tory party with all of of the tory party with all of these disparate groups, you know, wets, know, you've got the wets, the people left, you've got people on the left, you've got the, you know, the people on, as i said, the erg what people i said, the erg what some people term right, the term as the hard right, the singapore on thames crew, that w

mixed reactions on both sides of the tory party. it's a - sides of the tory party.it's a welcome and _ sides of the tory party. it's a welcome and positive - sides of the tory party. it's a l welcome and positive step i'm glad with some of the points the conservatives have been pushing were adopted by home secretary and i appreciate the outreach he has given to us as well as listening to the immigration minister.— to us as well as listening to the immigration minister. what is going on is there is— immigration minister. what is going on is there is an _ immigration minister. what is going on is there is an argument - immigration minister. what is going on is there is an argument between | on is there is an argument between the political ad line of take that control— the political ad line of take that control and dramatically reduce legat— control and dramatically reduce legal migration and the reality on the ground of what that means to people _ the ground of what that means to people who look after mum, people who look_ people who look after mum, people who look af

centre in the tory party between the orthe party and 0m the centre in the tory party between the orthearty and on thee centre in the tory party between the orthe party and on the righttre of the party and on the right you've got the european research group conservatives, group and the new conservatives, james, quickly james, i've got to ask quickly and finally, is there anything interesting in your whatsapps that's interesting messages that >> any interesting messages that have your way? just us have come your way? just give us a flavour. yeah i'm getting a whole range of messages here tonight in whatsapp. >> some blaming most of the left pointing at the right, the right pointing at the right, the right pointing at the left . some pointing at the left. some unspeakable from a couple unspeakable ones from a couple of people in government. about jenrick and some saying jenrick did the right thing. >> right. i mean, it's >> right. okay. i mean, it's a party that is eating itself alive. james hale of the spectator, thank you very, very much. that's the political much. look, that's the poli

centre in the tory party between the orthe party and 0m the centre in the tory party between the orthearty and on thee centre in the tory party between the orthe party and on the righttre of the party and on the right you've got the european research group conservatives, group and the new conservatives, james, quickly james, i've got to ask quickly and finally, is there anything interesting in your whatsapps that's interesting messages that >> any interesting messages that have your way? just us have come your way? just give us a flavour. yeah i'm getting a whole range of messages here tonight in whatsapp. >> some blaming most of the left pointing at the right, the right pointing at the right, the right pointing at the left . some pointing at the left. some unspeakable from a couple unspeakable ones from a couple of people in government. about jenrick and some saying jenrick did the right thing. >> right. i mean, it's >> right. okay. i mean, it's a party that is eating itself alive. james hale of the spectator, thank you very, very much. the political much. look, that's the political l

the tory party that means he's not saying no to it. so i think all bets are off. he future of this party. >> all right. that's chris faux pas, political editor in studio with piers with us is piers pottinger piers pottinger. eight pottinger. you advised eight political greats in my view, like margaret thatcher. how has this prime minister got into such a terrible mess on an issue which you normally is a strong area for the tories? tough on immigration, labour hopeless on immigration? well i think he's inherited a mess and unfortunately the mess has just got bigger . got bigger. >> he's facing a very, very tncky >> he's facing a very, very tricky time today and i suspect, though, that unless these various splinter groups of the tories have a genuine suicidal desire , they will come round . desire, they will come round. there will be an enormous amount of wheeler dealing, as chris has just talked about tonight, with all kinds of offers from the whips to get them to vote, to get through the second stage of the bill. and then it's down to next, the next reading , which

but if you wanted office, then the tory party is the place to get it because it won't come through reformhrough reform? breakthrough with reform? >> there's lot of tory >> no, there's a lot of tory voters are going to reform. voters who are going to reform. >> but but i mean, at >> i know, but but i mean, at the moment, reform around about 10% the polls is back in 10% in the polls is back in 2015. ukip they were polling around 15. even so, they still didn't get a single mp at the general election. >> they had 4 million votes and they had 4 million votes. >> now, have we had proportional representation in that would have been about 80 mps. they could had. could have had. >> isn't that the problem >> but isn't that the problem that old system that that we have an old system that needs be changed, that needs to be changed, that doesn't suit modern society and but you've got two party leaders who don't want change it who don't want to change it because it suits them in the winner. >> never does want to change tories. winner tories. yeah, yeah. the winner never to change it. tories. yeah, yeah

has anyone told the tory party .one told the tory party. >> ha ha ha ha grief because here is actually what we know about labour and starmer. >> he has no plan of his own as far as i can tell, to stop the boats. apart from taking an added 100,000 migrants or so from his mates at the eu, he's hamstrung and at hamstrung by the unions and at odds with his palestine supporting mps. ten of starmer's frontbench walked away over the issue that is not a party ready for government, plus everything that labour does have control of seems to go up. nottingham seems to go belly up. nottingham city council bankrupt birmingham city council bankrupt birmingham city council bankrupt and what a legacy. mark drakeford is leaving behind after he announced his resignation as wales first minister today. a health service in tatters. nhs waiting times at a record high and a draconian anti motorist 20 mile per hour speed limit. his crowning glory was getting turfed out of a mosque alongside keir starmer. the only thing that kept sunak in off

has anyone told the tory party .one told the tory party. >> ha ha ha ha grief because here is actually what we know about labour and starmer. >> he has no plan of his own as far as i can tell, to stop the boats. apart from taking an added 100,000 migrants or so from his mates at the eu, he's hamstrung and at hamstrung by the unions and at odds with his palestine supporting mps. ten of starmer's frontbench walked away over the issue that is not a party ready for government, plus everything that labour does have control of seems to go up. nottingham seems to go belly up. nottingham city council bankrupt birmingham city council bankrupt birmingham city council bankrupt and what a legacy. mark drakeford is leaving behind after he announced his resignation as wales first minister today. a health service in tatters. nhs waiting times at a record high and a draconian anti motorist 20 mile per hour speed limit. his crowning glory was getting turfed out of a mosque alongside keir starmer. the only thing that kept sunak in off

this time hitting the tory party this time , believe it or not. . ken rishi sunak unites his party or is indeed that just wishful thinking? and let's cross

look, this is a problem made in the tory party by the tory party. it's about the tory party. worrying about the country, the public, everything else. this is about who scores, what hits on what tory colleagues. it's unbelievable . unbelievable. >> bill and steve, we're hearing rumours of no confidence letters going in to rishi sunak. is that the kind of thing you'd welcome ? the kind of thing you'd welcome? >> well , as i the kind of thing you'd welcome? >> well, as i say, i feel utterly devoid from it. i mean, l, utterly devoid from it. i mean, i, i heard rumours that were letters like that going in that he was made prime minister and nothing about it surprises me. this is a party at civil war or it's too busy fighting amongst itself to try and govern . itself to try and govern. >> okay. steve mccabe, labour mp for birmingham, selly oak. thank you very much for joining us for birmingham, selly oak. thank you very much forjoining us on you very much for joining us on the show this afternoon. keeping it in this of the it punchy in this part of the show . later hour, we'll show

i mean, so many splits in the tory party. . ._ splits in the tory party...rse _ but actually, the split has got much worse because what we are now watching — worse because what we are now watching is split between people who believe _ watching is split between people who believe in _ watching is split between people who believe in the rule of law and people — believe in the rule of law and people who don't actually believe in the rule _ people who don't actually believe in the rule of— people who don't actually believe in the rule of law told the because the policy _ the rule of law told the because the policy being pursued by suella braverman and indeed robertjenrick is not _ braverman and indeed robertjenrick is not about the rule of law. it is in fact— is not about the rule of law. it is in fact about a form of parliamentary tyranny because it shows _ parliamentary tyranny because it shows complete disregard for individual rights and the way they've _ individual rights and the way they've approached this issue, and i recognise _ they've approached this is

to the tory party. ce in 2019 before the election get the general election on get brexit party, brexit done, the brexit party, as was then, everyone was as it was then, everyone was saying, going split saying, you're going to split the you'll let labour in. the vote, you'll let labour in. but now , chris, are but now, chris, people are saying, so what if we saying, well, so what if we split the tory vote? there's a real feeling amongst conservative voters that they actually the conservatives actually want the conservatives to lose. and why they're to lose. and that's why they're switching what's your switching to reform. what's your take yeah well i think take on that? yeah well i think they should be careful what they wish for. >> the problem is the reform party, as we saw earlier this year with those two by elections, had those votes elections, they had those votes not reform, but had gone not gone to reform, but had gone to party. tories to the tory party. the tories would on to at least would have cl

they also have to strike a balance between what different parts of the tory party once and those who human rights regulations entirely and those who think that would be unacceptable. it looks like though they have leaned towards the right of the party, but we have heard from allies of the former home secretary, suella braverman, who have stood up in parliament to say this is a do or die issue for the tory party, and she wanted to see five tests met in this legislation and she is already letting it be known that what she has seen so far does not meet those tests. it looks as though the government has failed to satisfy her at least. we will have to see more broadly how it is received in the tory party, but this bill has to get through the commons and lords. rishi sunak desperately wants these flights to take off before the next election and time running out. council bosses have lost a high court battle to stop the government housing asylum seekers at a famous disused raf base in lincolnshire. raf scampton was home to the dambusters during world war two and more recently the red arrows.

in the tory party.n the flight that we're a broad church now . that we're a broad church now. he wasn't referring to a david tennant mystery drama. when a bodyis tennant mystery drama. when a body is found on the beach in dorset, he was referring to the fact the tory party is wide open for the kind of values that that farage holds true. he went on to talk about we are now a party of tax cutters because what's happening is you're seeing the party reform, party party reform, the reform party richard tice this is, of course, a presenter of gb news. he runs reform farage himself is the lifetime president . they are lifetime president. they are getting more and more support because of the tory party is seen to be centrist to centres. for many voters and supporters. now he knows by tacking towards the right, maybe inviting farage back to join his party whether farage will do it, we don't know. he's in the jungle. it might be career suicide, but at least it would show voters that the party is keen on this kind

there's if there's a chance here if the tory party do something to tory party to do something to reversee labour's lead because they an idea on they have got an idea on immigration in different to what labour got. labour's idea immigration in different to what lab0|no got. labour's idea immigration in different to what lab0|no further. labour's idea immigration in different to what lab0|no further than our's idea immigration in different to what lab0|no further than the; idea immigration in different to what lab0|no further than the tories goes no further than the tories idea on enforcement. if idea on on enforcement. if rwanda works and labour are pledged to reverse rwanda, if they win power, if rwanda works, it will be something with which to beat labour with at the next election and that's the that's the prize at stake if the the prize at stake here. if the tory party >> just one quick thing for you, chris. we're seeing reports that graham stuart , the energy graham stuart, the energy minister, is now being told to fly back from dubai, 3000 miles in time for the vote tonight . is in t

so you see the state the tory party, and state of the tory party, and that's the groups on that's justhe groups on one side, they're against one side, and they're against the nation side. so it's the one nation side. so it's a party struggling for its heart on this five families? >> anything no, no. >> no. anything no, no. >> no. anything no, no. >> national. is >> this is national. this is it's been all day. where have >> this is national. this is it's been?ll day. where have >> this is national. this is it's been? you've where have >> this is national. this is it's been? you've been; have >> this is national. this is it's been? you've been asleep. you been? you've been asleep. i know, it and mark francois know, but it and mark francois is kind the leader. is kind of the leader. he was there the first. he's there on the steps first. he's there on the steps first. he's the corleone. and he said, the vito corleone. and he said, in that can't support in fact, that he can't support the of its many the bill because of its many omissions. basically omissions. so he's basically done i cannot

so you see the state the tory party, and state of the tory party, and that's the groups on that's justhe groups on one side, they're against one side, and they're against the nation side. so it's the one nation side. so it's a party struggling for its heart on this five families? >> anything no, no. >> no. anything no, no. >> no. anything no, no. >> national. is >> this is national. this is it's been all day. where have >> this is national. this is it's been?ll day. where have >> this is national. this is it's been? you've where have >> this is national. this is it's been? you've been; have >> this is national. this is it's been? you've been asleep. you been? you've been asleep. i know, it and mark francois know, but it and mark francois is kind the leader. is kind of the leader. he was there the first. he's there on the steps first. he's there on the steps first. he's the corleone. and he said, the vito corleone. and he said, in that can't support in fact, that he can't support the of its many the bill because of its many omissions. basically omissions. so he's basically done i cannot

has anyone told the tory party? [laughter] >> mister speaker, christmas is also a time for family and under the conservatives we have a record number of them. the beginning of the year, i said this party would deliver for the rich people and over the course of this year we have, mr. speaker. inflation have, mister speaker, the economy growing, debt falling, action, the votes down by a third and crucially as we heard from ottawa friends, tax cuts coming to help working families in the new year. >> mister speaker, he can spin it all he likes of the whole country can see that yet again the tory party is in meltdown and everyone is paying the price. the last thing, hidden fees, he's not capable enough. he is inexperienced. he is arrogant, a really bad politician. this is what they do. come on. who was it who said he's really bad politician? hands up. what about inexperienced. who was that? there is got to be something, he's got to go. apparently holding a christmas party next week. >> it's christmas. what you might not

lord howard, not just because you're a former tory party leader, but an experienced lawyer yourself. see those flights go off before the next election ? election? >> well, i can't answer that, mark, because i don't know when the next election is going to be. so that is something we'll just have to wait and see about. but there's you know , there's a but there's you know, there's a reasonable prospect that we will be able to see those flights take off within a matter of months. and i certainly hope so. >> lord michael howard, i spoke to john sergeant earlier, former chief political correspondent of the bbc, and he said that it's no guarantee prime minister no guarantee the prime minister will get this legislation through the commons. do you think it's possible that he could call a back me or sack me? snap general election ? snap general election? >> i think it's pretty unlikely. and i think contrary to john, whom i know well from the old days, i think the prime minister will get it through the house of commons. the those who think that it doesn't go far enough have no prospect whateve

it's about a structural the tory structural change to the tory party where tory party party where the losers that divides into the losers that are team and the winners that team world and the winners that are going stand for britain are going to stand for britain and it there's no there's no place for rishi sunak in the thing. there's no place for changing policies. >> it's the death of the tories . >> it's the death of the tories. >> it's the death of the tories. >> it's the death. it is the death you started saying, death you started by saying, no, no, no, no. >> but i think you were kind of agreeing. maybe you weren't agreeing with frost, but you were me least. were agreeing with me at least. i not sure what i don't know. i'm not sure what you no no. you were saying. no no. >> a lot of those things. a lot of things. that of those things. and that whether would there whether i would agree with there are who would are people out there who would agree with those things that they vote for those they maybe would vote for those things, voting things, but they're not voting for want someb

isn't reality that you will not be able to please both sides of the tory party? on the other side people who want to stay within human rights and international laws. if you do need to strike that balance. the emergency legislation does that. time is not on the side of the government. if you are willing to have a general election in the months although next year had. also, ithink in the months although next year had. also, i think people will not forget that suella braverman was the former home secretary he was in a position to bring forward measures. as she said, two axa parliament have already been passed. this one under the new home secretary and the prime minister seems to go way further and way beyond what had been there previously. i think it does, you know, cover all previously. i think it does, you know, coverallsides previously. i think it does, you know, cover all sides of the debate, for people who rightly say want to make sure the uk abides with its commitment to international law but also does as much as it possibly can to get the rwanda scheme off th

yeah he needs in the reform party needs farage in the reform party at moment, not in the tories. >> yeahreform party could force to be could be a real force to be reckoned with. >> think it could. >> yes, i think it could. >> yes, i think it could. >> yeah. and i think somebody had once said at hq, you know, if to 10, we are if reform get to 10, we are a word beginning with f and now they're polling around i think word beginning with f and now thor re polling around i think word beginning with f and now thor that>lling around i think word beginning with f and now thor that seems round i think word beginning with f and now thor that seems t0|nd i think word beginning with f and now thor that seems to be i think word beginning with f and now thor that seems to be theink 11 or that seems to be the westminster intention that people are moving to reform in their let's change their droves. yes. let's change gears and about the royals gears and talk about the royals at now we've had at christmas. now we've had a photograph of the cambridges as they once were known. now the prince princess of wa

whole tory party was on the poirsecond reading of the during whole tory party was on the poirsecond readingty not safety bill, in fact, not a single tory mp voted against it, and labour were once again humiliate by a significant vote in favour of a policy that is trying to address a major global issue , which is an increasing issue, which is an increasing amount of migration from africa and the middle east. and at no stage during that debate , to be stage during that debate, to be honest and objectively, did anyone hear what the labour policy was. my guess is that actually, if this works, and i think there's a good chance that it may well do, if it does work, i wouldn't be at all surprised if labour actually later on one day, if they ever become the government, would adopt the same policy and just carry it on quietly, in the same way that they criticised the universal credit and have never yet said that actually they would keep it going, but they know that it has been the most successful welfare scheme in western europe , and it scheme in western europe, and it worked brilliantly during the

it's about a structural the tory structural change to the tory party where tory party party where thelosers that divides into the losers that are team and the winners that team world and the winners that are going stand for britain are going to stand for britain and it there's no there's no place for rishi sunak in the thing. there's no place for changing policies. >> it's the death of the tories . >> it's the death of the tories. >> it's the death of the tories. >> it's the death. it is the death you started saying, death you started by saying, no, no, no, no. >> but i think you were kind of agreeing. maybe you weren't agreeing with frost, but you were me least. were agreeing with me at least. i not sure what i don't know. i'm not sure what you no no. you were saying. no no. >> a lot of those things. a lot of things. that of those things. and that whether would there whether i would agree with there are who would are people out there who would agree with those things that they vote for those they maybe would vote for those things, voting things, but they're not voting for want somebo

the tory party, isn't it?off about they're kicking off about a tweet now all pearl tweet now, all these pearl clutching one nation, tories whinging things this, whinging about things like this, being . well, you know being demeaning. well, you know what's demeaning? but it's being turned into a care home for vast parts of the third world by people who had years to see the migrant crisis coming and did absolutely nothing until it was far too late. you know what's demeaning? ordinary brits is being taxed into poverty to prop up crumbling, failing public services, creaking under the weight rapid population weight of rapid population growth. stop the boats enthusiast jonathan gullis tweeted. i approve this message over that tweet that we saw there from the tory party he and then former number 10 chief of staff gavin barwell tweeted, to be fair, this is about his level . ithen be fair, this is about his level . i then got this appeared to hit back by posting a story about barwell allegedly getting caught out in som

of humour a bit of the fact that the tory party sisense of humour and a bit of the fact that the toryisense of humour and putt of the fact that the tory party sisense of humour and put that a sense of humour and put that out because let me tell you, the lefties are chucking lefties are always chucking things those that centre things at those that are centre or right world. so or right of the world. and so i think was really funny. the think it was really funny. the labour party has no plan because they don't intend to stop anything keir anything from happening and keir starmer whatever the anything from happening and keir starrminimum whatever the anything from happening and keir starrminimum wrhe�*ver the anything from happening and keir starrminimum wrhe needsz anything from happening and keir starrminimum wrhe needs to do bare minimum that he needs to do because he of knows he's because he kind of knows he's going . whatever happens, because he kind of knows he's goin�*going . whatever happens, because he kind of knows he's goin�*going to whatever happens, because he kind of knows

in the tory party. early we heard we heard from kemi badenoch gave quite a strong statement there about transgender issues . and the transgender issues. and the feeling isn't her that that these so—called possible leaders from the right wing of the party are starting to show the mps what they've got in them. i think that suella braverman of those speeches is perfectly timed because we are expecting this rwanda bill to drop very soon. and when that happens, tory mps from the erg, the common sense group, new conservatives , have formed a conservatives, have formed a group called the star chamber to go over it line by line for many, it's a test on whether rigid sunak understands the need to deal with this issue or is just merely going to pay lip service to he a service to it. he talks a big game. sunak , notably on the game. mr sunak, notably on the visit to dubai last week. cop 28. when i was lucky enough to be with him. can he deliver, though, on the ground? can he actually take on the left in his party

but i also don't believe the tory party as it stands under rishi sunak right now a want to deliver thising that maybe nigel farage could deliver if he had a party in power. but it's not the sort of thing rishi sunak could thing that rishi sunak could deliver. the sort of thing deliver. it is the sort of thing that suella braverman could deliver. of course, deliver. but now, of course, she's to go back to fareham she's had to go back to fareham and lick wounds and wait and lick her wounds and wait to see the future holds for see what the future holds for her. shouldn't be spending see what the future holds for her. we shouldn't be spending see what the future holds for her. we might n't be spending see what the future holds for her. we might n't well)ending see what the future holds for her. we might n't well justing see what the future holds for her. we might n't well just say this. we might as well just say at point. well, there at this point. well, there shouldn't telling that's shouldn't be telling us that's what they're going to do. this whole thing is bad optics. it might say we've

to the left, right and centre and serious questions need to be asked about the direction of the tory party had criticism from the erg and new conservative factions as well as from the one nation group, many of whom ultimately voted with the government . but voted with the government. but where does it go from here, meanwhile, is the question of the safety of rwanda itself settled? now that the bill has been passed, there's certainly been passed, there's certainly been much criticism of the government's ruling legislating to declare rwanda safe. but it's entirely proper in our system of parliamentary sovereignty for the legislature to overrule the judiciary. we also thought we'd examine the history of government defeats the last time it happened was in 1986, during that glorious period, those wonderful years of margaret thatcher and a certain alleged former tory mp and barrister and friend of this program has a story or two to tell us. state of the nation starts now . of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by my erudite panel this evening, former tory mp jerry hayes and the former la

lord howard, not just because you're a former tory party leader, but an experienced lawyer yourself.we see those flights go off before the next election ? election? >> well, i can't answer that, mark, because i don't know when the next election is going to be. so that is something we'll just have to wait and see about. but there's you know , there's a but there's you know, there's a reasonable prospect that we will be able to see those flights take off within a matter of months. and i certainly hope so. >> lord michael howard, i spoke to john sergeant earlier, former chief political correspondent of the bbc, and he said that it's no guarantee prime minister no guarantee the prime minister will get this legislation through the commons. do you think it's possible that he could call a back me or sack me? snap general election ? snap general election? >> i think it's pretty unlikely. and i think contrary to john, whom i know well from the old days, i think the prime minister will get it through the house of commons. the those who think that it doesn't go far enough have no prospect whate

but i also don't believe the tory party as it stands under rishi sunak right now a want to deliver thising that maybe nigel farage could deliver if he had a party in power. but it's not the sort of thing rishi sunak could thing that rishi sunak could deliver. the sort of thing deliver. it is the sort of thing that suella braverman could deliver. of course, deliver. but now, of course, she's to go back to fareham she's had to go back to fareham and lick wounds and wait and lick her wounds and wait to see the future holds for see what the future holds for her. shouldn't be spending see what the future holds for her. we shouldn't be spending see what the future holds for her. we might n't be spending see what the future holds for her. we might n't well)ending see what the future holds for her. we might n't well justing see what the future holds for her. we might n't well just say this. we might as well just say at point. well, there at this point. well, there shouldn't telling that's shouldn't be telling us that's what they're going to do. this whole thing is bad optics. it might say we've

this divides the left and the right of the tory party essentially still on a leave remain basis. voted to leave the european union believe in domestic control and parliamentary democracy. those who voted remain can prefer an international world order where countries follow the same code of rights. this argument will not go away with today's bill being passed at second reading, but with migration a problem throughout europe , it's an issue throughout europe, it's an issue faced by many other countries and many of our allies as well. well, i'm joined now by the human rights lawyer and former chairman of conservatives overseas , david haig. david overseas, david haig. david thank you very much for joining us. from your perspective as chairman of conservative overseas, how much is this a problem for other nations, not just for the uk ? just for the uk? >> i think good evening, jacob. i think i think you're certainly seeing i mean, i was i was conservatives abroad chairman in the middle east. and some time ago. and i think, you know, in that part of the world, it's a little bit differ

whole tory party was on the poirsecond reading of the during whole tory party was on the poirsecond readingty not safety bill, in fact, not a single tory mp voted against it, and labour were once again humiliate by a significant vote in favour of a policy that is trying to address a major global issue , which is an increasing issue, which is an increasing amount of migration from africa and the middle east. and at no stage during that debate , to be stage during that debate, to be honest and objectively, did anyone hear what the labour policy was. my guess is that actually, if this works, and i think there's a good chance that it may well do, if it does work, i wouldn't be at all surprised if labour actually later on one day, if they ever become the government, would adopt the same policy and just carry it on quietly, in the same way that they criticised the universal credit and have never yet said that actually they would keep it going, but they know that it has been the most successful welfare scheme in western europe , and it scheme in western europe, and it worked brilliantly during the

polly here coming on the here in parliament coming on the fourth anniversary of the tory party's landslideg landslide win in 2019. quite extraordinary . chris if that tory rebellion defeats this bill for the government . government. >> and don't forget, we're hearing, of course , from hearing, of course, from northern ireland that the dup were considering also voting against the government on this matter . if against the government on this matter. if enough abstained, parliamentary rules dictate this same second reading of the bill can't be put through parliament again. but if it has to pass, if it if the government wants it to pass, it must be voted on again in the future. when will that be? >> well , that's a big if. the >> well, that's a big if. the rules are that if it's been defeated by a parliament, i don't think it can come back in the same form. they've got to find to present find a different way to present it. european research it. now, the european research group of tory mps pulled out its research it group of tory mps pulled out its resethumbs it group of tory mps pulled out its

but where i disagree with phillip, the tory party already looks like — with phillip, the tory party alreadysomeone who is doing a decentjob in difficult _ who is doing a decentjob in difficult circumstances, without an obvious _ difficult circumstances, without an obvious successor, we begin tojust look like the nasty party of old. and it _ look like the nasty party of old. and it is — look like the nasty party of old. and it is ridiculous to change the prime _ and it is ridiculous to change the prime minister again. you lose all sorts— prime minister again. you lose all sorts of— prime minister again. you lose all sorts of democratic accountability of how _ sorts of democratic accountability of how people voted in an election. we would _ of how people voted in an election. we would look ridiculous, and it doesn't — we would look ridiculous, and it doesn't mean the party won't do it but i _ doesn't mean the party won't do it but i think— doesn't mean the party won't do it but i think they would... let doesn't mean the party won't do it but i think they would. . .— but i think they would...

. >> after a day of grandstanding from both wings of the tory party, telegraph ben wallace. ot let rwanda brown bring down the government. i don't think it will need that guard in climate draft condemned as weak and insufficient isn't the i news tory rebels in stand off with pm on rwanda law. the sun fury verses cheshire council that must be tyson fury then at and daily express last ditch bid to win over rebels is that's that's our top paper hall . rather our top paper hall. rather thrown there by the absence of the daily star and buzzfeed news at the end i normally have that little flourish to look forward to but obviously they haven't published in time. so we've got the to off with. the daily mail to kick off with. >> have tories in >> so they have tories in turmoil day after day of turmoil after day after day of grandstanding of grandstanding from both wings of the tory party. grandstanding from both wings of the rishi party. grandstanding from both wings of the rishi faces rwanda vote today. >> e�*- >> that could sink his leadership . and just about the leadership. and ju

. >> after a day of grandstanding from both wings of the tory party, telegraph ben wallace. ot let rwanda brown bring down the government. i don't think it will need that guard in climate draft condemned as weak and insufficient isn't the i news tory rebels in stand off with pm on rwanda law. the sun fury verses cheshire council that must be tyson fury then at and daily express last ditch bid to win over rebels is that's that's our top paper hall . rather our top paper hall. rather thrown there by the absence of the daily star and buzzfeed news at the end i normally have that little flourish to look forward to but obviously they haven't published in time. so we've got the to off with. the daily mail to kick off with. >> have tories in >> so they have tories in turmoil day after day of turmoil after day after day of grandstanding of grandstanding from both wings of the tory party. grandstanding from both wings of the rishi party. grandstanding from both wings of the rishi faces rwanda vote today. >> e�*- >> that could sink his leadership . and just about the leadership. and ju

i've texted the tory party saying is it coming down? or the spokesman tells gb news it was a topical encapsulation of a labour party's position . it's labour party's position. it's really more of this next year. this is what we're going to see in the election campaign. i feel sorry the presenter who sorry for the bbc. presenter who is dragged into political is now dragged into political row it's fair on her, row and it's not fair on her, but it's all fair in love and twitter . twitter. >> yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? this the way that the it? is this the way that the tory party going for younger it? is this the way that the tory pa boothsgoing for younger it? is this the way that the tory pa boothsgoiryou yr younger it? is this the way that the tory pa boothsgoiryou think?;er voters? booths do you think? because very thing because a very similar thing happened ago. happened a few weeks ago. i don't know if you remember when david cameron was brought back in secretary in as foreign secretary a similar of david similar thing, a photo

and why are so many people in the tory party a little bit dense when it comes to basic pr? this ain't gonna go down well. no. see you two. you tell me economy. it's currently 97.8. that's 2.3% higher than october. >> hello. thanks. >> hello. thanks. >> hello. thanks. >> hello there. michelle dewberry with you until 7:00 tonight. conservative peer in the house of lords. shaun bailey and visiting professor at staffordshire university, tom brook. what's a visiting professor here? >> means i don't have to go there very often. i give the occasional lecture. >> a like a house of >> it's like a like a house of lords member, then. oh, i don't get like daily allowance. >> me, i'm four days a week. i'm four days a week. >> so i'd be i'd want to hear that. i'd be seven days a week if it was 300 and some quid. did you do as well at house you do weekends as well at house of lords, your daily allowance? >> yes. you only an >> yes. you only get an allowance turn up. allowance if you turn up. >> and if you turn up clock in and for lunch. and go for lunch. >> you have to turn up and >> no,

so people hate it from the one nation tories on the sort of left of the party, if you like, hate it. ate it. don't think it will work. so they're arguing . both are they're arguing. both are arguing over something that they don't think will really work anyway . anyway. >> it's a particular talent to find something that both wings of your party loathe loathe that is not going to work. is also not going to work. >> yeah , but it's become >> yeah, but it's become totemic, hasn't it? >> do you even do that? >> do you even do that? >> how you do that? do >> how do you do that? how do you pick that everyone you pick something that everyone thinks and fight thinks is rubbish and then fight overit? thinks is rubbish and then fight over it? well, because there is no other alternative. >> it to you. i mean, >> i put it to you. i mean, i think what else could he do? >> listening to robert >> i think listening to robert jenrick on various jenrick yesterday on various interviews, you suddenly realise if don't do anything, how if you don't do anything, how are going to sustain 400,000 are you going

the tory party.d of a vote tonight as rishi sunak tries to persuade tory mps to back his flagship plan, you can continue to watch by scanning the qr code you can see there on the right—hand side of your screen or switch over to bbc parliament. do stay with us here on bbc news for verified live coming up next. with the law in the courts would respect parliament was my decision. live from london, this is bbc news. rishi sunak ahead of a crunch vote tonight on his rwanda policy. these are the live pictures from the house of commons where mps are debating bed bill. we will bring you the latest. any draft resolution is excited to be announced shortly at the un climate summit after the backlash against plans that made no mention of phasing out fossil fuels. the bombardment of gaza continues as a un chief says civilians there are enduring hell on earth. turkey suspects all domestic football after a referee is punched at a game by the president of super league club. welcome to the programme where we bring yo

with us and given that the tory partyto with us and given that the tory partythe jnited on the need to with us and given that the tory partythe boats on the need to with us and given that the tory partythe boats and he need to with us and given that the tory partythe boats and to need to with us and given that the tory partythe boats and to kerbi to stop the boats and to kerb illegal immigration action, it's really important, view , to really important, in my view, to get prime minister get behind the prime minister the as it stands the bill, as it stands disapplying sections two, disapplying sections one, two, three, four, five. >> sorry, one, two, three, six, seven, eight and nine of the human rights act. >> that's a vast, vast gutting of that 1998 tony blair legislation on. do you really believe the house of lords will accept that ? well, wait and see. accept that? well, wait and see. but the important thing is this the prime minister is very comfortable making bold decisions. he's done that. this is very bold, ambitio