this is the tpl 25. this is the piece of machinery that is absolutely crucial in finding the thing that could answer why flight 370 went down. the flight data recorder, or the black box. tpl stands for toad pinger locater, and the ship does exactly that, too. it tows it along at really slow speeds as it's listening for the clicks, those pings from the black box. we talk so much about pings. this is the noise this tpl is listening for. >> okay, so you get that. those are the clicks it's listening for. we just talked to will ripley in perth. he said this tpl arrived overnight. my next guest has used an earlier version of this tpl 25 back in 1996. she is a retired navy captain and navy diver. bobbie, thank you so much for joining me, because i need your expertise as we're all learning about these mechanisms together here. first, we keep hearing this analogy of a needle in a haystack, and in order to find the needle, you have to figure out where the haystack is. but they don't even definitively have plane de

we have a tpl, a towed pinger locator on the back of this ship. it's a giant microphone that they're going to drop into the water and listen for the fading pings they're emanating, because they've been presumably going off now for several weeks, and we only have a month of battery life. if we get to the point where we know without a reasonable doubt that the pings are gone and they're not being emitted anymore, there is also another piece of equipment on the ocean shield. it's basically an underwater submarine drone type device. and it scans the bottom of the ocean and can map out if there is any debris sitting on the ocean floor. but in order for any of this sophisticated equipment to be effective, we need to narrow down the size of the search area. they can only cover about 50 square miles a day. we have over 100,000 square miles of area to search. so essentially, until you find that haystack, we've been using the need until the haystack term, this is the needle finder, but they have to find the haystack first, and we're not close to doing that.

they will deploy the tpl and listening for the pings.we keep going back to the analogy of the needle being the black box. if they don't know what the haystack is because let's be real, they don't. how is this supposed to work some. >> it's such a long shot. it's like looking for your cell phone thrown out the window of your car from new york to florida by yourself. it's not good. i don't really believe that -- they are looking for debris to satisfy the families. tracking the debris back with current modelling and searching the bottom of the ocean without narrowing the flight pattern down, it could be lot of forever. >> wie mentioned the search area about 100,000 square miles. we talked to the producer and we said if this search area were 10,000 square miles with everything perfect and weather conditions and technology equipment all a-ok, how long would that search take? >> i have exact experience with a blue fin 12 inch vehicle that we launched for three years and mapping 1800 square feet of bottom. based on performance of their systems,

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the tpl for starters, the bluefin 21, the underwater drone submarine as well. but essentially, its purpose, until we have a more narrow search area, its purpose is going to be a search vessel, just like the seven chinese ships that are going to be in the area, the two australian ships in the area with a thousand sailors who are literally standing along the deck, just like we are right now, holding up binoculars, looking out over the ocean, scanning tscan ing the ocean to see what they see. when you're doing that hours on end, your mind starts to play tricks on you. you have to rely on the visuals. if we're looking for debris that is floating at the top of the surface, radar isn't going to do much good. we're also at the mercy of the weather conditions. today it's cloudy. it's overcast. and normally we're told that fremantle, perth's main port is sunny. not the case. it's hard to know what is going to happen. >> let me get in here for. people who are watching at home and even us here on the desk where you're off garden island, what body of water have you been an

well, i'll have to call it by its name, the tpl-25, tow pinger locater.s the use of the gear that you have? >> well, that's true. this is kind of for later on. what they're going to have to do, christine stated, empirical data ask, that can be the wreckage as well. and plug in as much as they can. and as mikie said, the inmarsat data seems like they have worked out a closer track. so that may be some really good data that narrows down the search. once they get that, they're going to have to run extensive computer programs, plug everything in there, and essentially they run millions and millions of different scenarios, and they get higher probability hits. when you're done, it looks like a big fried egg data plan with, you know, thousands and thousands of hits per square mile. it projected. and those are likely higher likelihood areas. they've got to narrow down the search. >> i'm glad you said that. they've got to narrow down the search. but absent of that happening, how many of those devices would be adequate for the kind of search that's needed? >> this

they told me something called a tpl, a tode pinger locater, and it does exactly what the name suggests, it looks for that ping. it's a piece of equipment that has listening gear. and so you put experts on the other end of that information and they're able to distinguish what this ping exactly sounds like. and they narrow an area which is what we've been talking about all along. this area needs to be narrowed. and within that narrow area, then you'd have a debris field. and that's when you bring something called nauv. autonomous unmanned vehicle. here is what this vehicle looks like and what it does. unmanned probes like this have searched the ocean for plane wreckage before. it took years of sweeping the ocean bottom, but it found a downed plane carrying italian fashion designer vittorio misoni, his wife and four others off the coast of venezuela last year. it helped find an air france flight after it went missing, locating wreckage and hundreds of bodies on board. it found ships that sunk decades ago. these probes allowed for detailed imaging of the "titanic." >> the smaller ones go d

i'm also interested in the fact that the pacific fleet dispatch ad tpl, which is towed pinger locationea. that is the device, if pingers on black boxes are still broadcasting and they should be, we're well within the 30-day spec life of ping locators they should pick it up to a depth of about 20,000 feet. martha: we know the ocean in that area is that type. it is very deep, very dark, very unexplored in some cases part of the ocean. as you point out, they are trailing the towed ping locator which you mentioned. this is the united states. naval officials say that vessel used to toe it would be most likely be a commercial vessel by the malaysians and our equipment used on it and it would be towed to the area and then what happens, sal? >> it is towed over the area where they think the wreckage is located. you have to remember we may locate this wreckage many, many miles further upstream, up current if you would than where the wreckage is actually located. so they will have to make an estimate on that. the p8 can put sonar buoys in the water to give us an indication how fast the currents

. >> yes, the tpl 25 is a device that picks up the a custic signature of the pinger that is located on data recorders. and the pinger is designed to draw attention, that is the black box. to pull up the black box that records all of the aircraft perimeters. it is towed behind a ship. and they intend to use it on awe commercial ship. that's the intent. and they will put it on a commercial ship and tow it over the debris field and locate the pinger and flight data recorder. and once they do that. you put the blue fin 21 in a torpedothat is 16 feet long and has sonar and mapping technology and put video cameras and still cameras in there and it goes down by itself. it is an unmanned submarine that goes back and forth and using the navigation system accurately records and images the sea floor. bring it up and it has a four gig flash memory and slap new batteries and sensors and put it back in the water and it goes again. it can go 24 or 25 hours while the data is analyzed in the mother ship. to your point. >> go ahead. >> yeah, like the australia defense minister said. we are not search is

one is called a tpl, or a toad pinger located and another is called a blue fin.hen we think we have a good point where we want to search, we will deploy those, once again, on an australian vessel under the lead through their coordination. but those pieces of equipment are what most likely will find the black box, if at all, it can be found. >> what are you hearing, commander, about the wetter this out there? it's relatively okay today. but what about the next few days? >> yeah, it was rough yesterday. we saw seas 6, 7, 8 feet or more which is very difficult on the ships out there. i do have reports, it should get slightly better. that's why we're launching some of these flights today. hopefully loading on the pinger locator. >> but as of now, you don't feel you're any closer to any wreckage or debris or this airliner i heard john kirby, the pentagon spokesman say here on cnn a little while ago, it's not just looking for a needle in a haystack, not just looking for a haystack, he says, we haven't even found the harm yet where a haystack might exist. is that your s

the site, pick up the debris, examine it, identify it, collect data from that, and then put in the tpl, the toe pinger locator and try to pick up the found that at this point we're 20 day into it. the battery is running low. it's much shallower depth so we'll have hopefully have greater success. >> at some point whatever is floating will wash up on shore and that's going to happen for years? >> it could. we're looking at a potential impact area that could still be thousands of miles away. so even as much as we have this debris and they're going to give us answers, we're still going to be in search of this plane wreckage, and that could take a lot longer than finding these boxes. >> christine, hope they find it good to see you. our coverage continues right after this. female announcer: through sunday at sleep train's big gift event get a $200 best buy gift card with purchase of selected mattress sets. or, get 24-months interest-free financing. sleep train's big gift event ends sunday. ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ >>> more now on the missing jet. still waiting to hear what o

called phoenix international and they told us there's a lot of ways for you to find an aircraft, but a tplt's used and it does what the name says. so it's a piece of equipment that is equipped with a listening device. it's specifically listening for that ping. and then you have experts on the other end listening for this pi ping. so what this does is the ping narrows your search. it isolates an area where you know that the wreckage could possibly be, where your debris field could be. then you bring in an auv, or an unmanned vehicle and this is what it looks like, folks, and this is what it does. take a listen. >> reporter: unmanned probes have searched the ocean for plane wreckage before. it took years of sweeping the ocean bottom, but it found a downed plane carrying italian fashion designer, his wife and four others off the coast of venezuela last year. it helped find air france flight 447 after it went missing, locating the wreckage and hundreds of bodies on board. it has found ships that sunk decades ago like the ark royal and the probes even allowed for detailed imaging of the titanic

one is the tpl 25. that's the today piad pinger lo. hydrophone.down to a depth of about 20,000 feet and just liston any sound it here is. so if that black box is down there and it's within range, it will hear it. the key point being there in range. these black boxes don't have a huge range. maybe a couple thousand meters. so you really have to have a good sense of where this thing is. otherwise if we're on the wrong spot we'll never hear it. just to give you an example to draw a picture of how huge a challenge this is, even if this debris was moving at half a knot an hour, so .5 nautical miles an hour, over the course of 16, 17 days we're still talking hundreds of miles. so that's what -- we need to get the first planes out there to get the best location we can. so then our toad pinger locater c can nnt can listen in the right spot. >> commander marks, thanks for taking the time to talk to us. thank you. >>> for more now on the hydrophones, essentially water microphones, stephanie elam joins us from a boat off the pacific coast off santa barbara,

they have to put the tpl down right on top of the bottom to get the best chance of being close enough to detect the signal. and that means there is a lot of line reeled out and it's low jess stick, takes a lot of time to real it out and real it back in. >> if we are beyond the ping and the blue fin 21 has to locate. this i'm curious, i assume the black box drops down pretty far down. does it get covered with all -- does it get hidden by all sorts of silt or dirt on the ocean floor and current move it? what's the story once it gets down there? >> it really probably depends on the bottom. but, remembering air france, i saw pictures of the black-out orange box sitting on the bottom, and it was bright as day. it was really obvious to see. it's probably going to be sitting out in the open. the real question is that the wreckage comes to lie on a flat sandy area will that be easy to map or among rocks in which case they may not be able to realize they are looking at landing gear or engines or other large pieces. >> hank, you have been suspicious since day one when you have been on with us a

will start searching in a particular area where they will be able to deploy this pinger locator, the tplaximum depth of 25,000 feet. hopefully, when everything does come together, and i personally believe it will. they will be able to deploy the hydrophone and start listening with acoustics for this pinger within the next 11 days, as we're counting down. >> so you're optimistic, because they are able to narrow this search area down. it is still the size of alaska, right? i'm not even talking about the depth of the ocean. so perhaps they will be able to narrow it further. is that possible. >> i believe we are looking at really the most expert teams in the world that do this. they do this professionally. they are a very tight team. they work like clockwork. it is a very important thing to have a group of resources that are coming together that are working around the clock on everything. i think what we've been hearing, they are prepared to do that. i really believe that we have the technology and we certainly have the resources available to us at this point that they will continue and be s

. >> this it tpl, this is the pinkpink oiger locater, it's listening for the ping to figure out whatit can only move like 10, 15 square miles a day and we're talking about an area that is like tens of thousands of nautical square miles, correct? >> correct. and it is a slow process. but again, you have some of the best teams that will be deployed. and really i think the best resources that from all these different countries that are putting in the effort dedicated to finding this. and within the time frame that we have left. and as captain darby also said, every day the batteries are being reduced and so it's more of a fate sound. but they're really working gh s against time here. >> hopefully they can find it and figure it out. thank you so much. >>> back to these families of the lost on flight 370. they have so few answers. so what is it like to lose a family member and have no idea what happened to almost or her ever? coming up, hear from a man who lost his brother more than ten years ago in a plane accident and still has no idea where he is or what happened. up late. thinking up

but combining the blue fin with tpl 25 which is the black box detector, those are essentially in then for contingency purposes. you have to pretty much know where the aircraft is before either of those pieces of equipment would be very useful. >> understand. sam lagrown, thanks so much. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> still to come on the nutrisystem room, president obama -- "newsroom," president obama showing a united front in the ukraine am we'll show you those remarks after we take' break. co: i've always found you don't know you need a hotel room until you're sure you do. bartender: thanks, captain obvious. co: which is what makes using the hotels.com mobile app so useful. i can book a nearby hotel room from wherever i am. or, i could not book a hotel room and put my cellphone back into my pocket as if nothing happened. hotels.com. i don't need it right now. nascar is about excitement. but tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. that's why we partnered with hp to build the n