saint /tproeu -- speaker: both memos are identical except towards the end. speaker: but your view is they are directed both to saint /tproeu and [indiscernible] speaker: absolutely and both dated september nineteenth, um, pretty much in a nutshell indicate that because charter section c3 dot six nine nine dash one three applies only to the ethics laws and not to the public access laws as was held in the allen gross man verses san francisco ethics commission memorandum of points and authorities petition for preemptory mandate october fifth 2009 which was settled in mr. gross man's favor, c3 dot six nine nine dash thirteen was relied on by both the controllers office and by the ethics commissioner mr. saint c r o y as being their main claim that they had an exception but it is not upheld by [indiscernible] and the majority of their case plied on this and because of that i am going to repeat what i said in public comment of this meeting tonight that i don't believe this matter should be before you whatsoever for a number of reasons which i'll get to. speaker: m