so i knew if you could find the hole in your trachea, you could plug it perhaps, you might be able toe noise. it might sound something like this. so there is no way that anthony klann could be running down a creek bed trying to plug two holes in his trachea so he can scream for his life. >> after visiting the crime scene, father neil had other suspicions about espinoza's testimony. >> joe supposedly grabs the knife and goes after anthony in the creek bed, stabbing him. and yet there were no tire tracks or anything on the side of the creek. and so i thought, whoa, something's not right here. >> neil believed espinoza had to be lying. but a witness who was lying did not necessarily mean joe was telling the truth. neil needed to know more about joe's background. >> joe's father died when he was 17 years old. joe is the only boy in the family. so his father's death was very traumatic for him. >> i had to become the breadwinner. and as soon as i graduated i went right into the military. i was what they call a shade tree mechanic. i worked on everything from a jeep all the way up to a 35,00

what you're gonna do is you're gonna take two fingers and at his trachea, you're gonna drive right throughouch him right there, and if you did that and you poked really hard, he would probably choke. >> what i'd do is go... [ choking ] it makes them choke, and it gives you plenty of time to get away. >> gives you a lot of time. you're just gonna use two fingers, too, and you're gonna push as hard as you can. because remember, you're in fear of your life. you're gonna escape. you're not gonna kill him, but you're gonna hurt him, and it's gonna make a difference. >> that's so much simpler than a lot of kids would think. >> well, you know what? it's the "easy" button of self-defense, but don't tell staples. >> so, how is all of this different than typical self-defense? >> well, you noticed we're not wearing pads, and we're not throwing you on the ground. what we're doing is we're teaching you to escape, so anybody could do it. >> no fighting -- there's no punching, no kicking. it's about escaping because the reality is you're gonna be against someone much stronger than you are, and these tech

. -- tracheas. they may serve patients dying on transplant list. day, mostly waiting for kidneys? >> that is exactly right. john: wake forest, where you wouldn't to school, researchers figured out how to print new skin cells on to burn wounds using 3d printers. what skirts out instead of ink are different kind of skin sells. they only need a patch much skin, one 10th the size of burn to print cells. >> before that they needed skin grafts and would require surgeries where skin is harvested from multiple areas of your body. then you have multiple wound c that could have infection. plastic surgery and burn type medicine will really leap forward. >> people are thrilled about. that then you get squeamish when i point out that science will also soon allow us to design babies. it will happen. parents will select genes to increase the odds that their wait by is healthy, smart, maybe a good athlete or a musician. already doctors help parent choose their baby's gender. and they could do more. things you could do, but you choose not to do are eye color, hair

i understand chokeholds, go for two carotid arteries, trachea or -- may sound technical, but the realitythere is a legal distinction. do you see a headlock or chokehold? >> well, you know, there's different angles to that video. and that's the problem with it. i don't really want to get into whether it was a chokehold or headlock. >> it matters. >> i find it problematic after they got the guy in custody they didn't perform some sort of, you know, check on him, make sure he's breathing and so on and so forth. he still had to be taken into custody. and the common theme here is this, sean, when a law enforcement officer gives you a lawful command, you must do it. and if that happens, you know what, everything else goes well for you. >> it's funny. i've learned that when i used to speed. i don't speed anymore. i've gotten a little more mature in my life. but when you argue with a cop, it never pays off. when you say i'm sorry, yes, officer, no, sir, in those experiences, i have found it goes a long way when you show the respect that officers deserve. because otherwise if you're hostile, they

if you go for the trachea or windpipe, you can literally kill somebody, that's illegal by every police department standards. it may sound technical, but it really isn't in this case, is it? >> no, it is very technical in how it's applied. and it's usually -- you have to use both your arms to tie it up to actually apply it. and what looks like when there's the grappling on the ground, it looks like that there's a tie up in a carotid type chokehold, but it could very well be a headlock where the officer has no other opportunity to try to control the suspect. what's really important here, sean, is when does the suspect just let loose and comply? when does he give up? he can scream all he wants, but if he's not giving up, then they can't relinquish their power. they can't allow the suspect to get any kind of, you know, foothold or actually get back on his feet. that's the problem here. and this is what you're talking about. in the transcripts what's the testimony of the officers and the witnesses? >> all right, mark, thank you. when we come back, we're going to continue why i'm so angry in

clearly was placing in a position to bring about crushing of a trachea. to me, that's a breach of due care, that's involuntary manslaughter or criminal negligence, pretty simple to me they could have found that way. >> let me bring you in. the first reaction a lot of people had outside of outrage from the protesters we saw by the thousands was here is an example of an event caught on video, caught in real time, with audio, at close range. if this does not result indictment, how could a body camera, which i know you talked a lot about, president obama is ready to provide millions of dollars for body cameras, that it is useless. >> let me just say that body cameras obviously are a useful tool. we would not be in this position now but for that videotape. we know that there are flaws in the criminal justice system. the criminal justice system obviously has to change. need a special prosecutor, someone impartial, not with a cozy relationship with police and cooperate with police officers. we need individuals who are objective to determine the evidence, such as

it's not to choke them and cut off the wind and crush the adam's apple or trachea.e's not using what's a legitimate hold and actually, at this point, all these holds were banned because it's so easy to accidentally choke a person and kill them. >> so now let's go to the other part of the video. procedurally, it was very difficult to watch as mr. garner was on the pavement and he seemed to be unconscious. but he was still cuffed. is that procedure to keep him cuffed even at that time? >> yeah. because many times, a person will wake up and go back to, you know, whatever the activity was or try to resist or try to continue, you know, when they wake up and people, you know, they would not have known at that point that he is dying and that he's having that trouble. but as you hear the officer say and the emt later who examines his pulse by taking his neck pulse he is still breathing, he still does have a pulse, so cpr would be inappropriate and at that point, he gets turned over to the medical technicians and the paramedic and it would be their responsibility to care for

one is they can compress the trachea.ess the carotid arteries that give blood flow to the neck. so there are several things that go on there. when he says i can't breathed and he's able to say that, and people say obviously he can breathe. first of all, there's a pragmatic sort of thing. she was in distress, so maybe still moving air across his vocal cords. the other part of this, sort of more mechanical. think about this. when you talk, you're pushing air out across your vocal cords and that's how you make sound, that's how you make words. it's challenging to get the air back into your lunges if there's too much pressure on your chest. you have to expand your chest and rib cage to get air back in. he probably was having difficulty doing that. it's one of these things, hard to read too much into that. i wouldn't say simply because he was talking meant he obviously had no trouble breathing. there obviously was so trouble and it was probably progressive live getting worse. >> dr. sanjay gupta, thanks for making things clear