employees of the agency to see if there are nontravel based approaches we can use to get that traini ingtraining, to get activity. >> i would assume in house is they are following best practices. what a waste of time. it's like pulling teeth to get money for professional development in any organization let alone governmental organizations. didn't somebody say this is going to kill -- you know this, ms. johnson. when's the next time we're going to get meaning conferences in gsa? not in our lifetime. that's the destructive outcome. i ask you. this mr. neily, i wish he was here today. this guy set up a system. is what it appears like. here's what i would tell you. these ses folks, i have seen some of the most dedicated professional public servants that i have ever come across in private and public sector in my life. and i have seen some of the worse. how are you going to deal? these folks have an attitude. they will outlive you. the next president will come and you will be gone. and they will continue. this guy has been around forever. he outlasted ms. johnson. whether he outlasts you or not. how a