after this break, our program on post traumatic disorder begins. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. it is estimated that one in five american veterans in these wars suffer from severe depression or post traumatic stress disorder. retired lieutenant colonel john o blin is one of them. he served four tours in iraq and surrounding persian gulf as well as three tours on the-- tours on the border of israel and egypt, awarded the bronze star, purple heart and kbrat action badge among other commendationses. he joins me tonight to talk about his life, also joining me an extraordinary group of scien titss, mary stein from california san diego, lisa shin from tufts university, kerry russler from emory university, joann difede from cornell and my cohost is dr. eric kandel. a noubl lawyer yet, professor at columbia university and a howard hughes medical investigator. i am pleased to have all of them here this evening at this table. which be

brain injury, or showing post-traumatic stress. and where to go as far as for help. and, um, what sort of resources are available. the va even offers a program called coaching into care, which is available as far as for families, so that then reach out to them and they'll help them, guide them, assist them in getting the veteran now into care as far as through the va. so you need, um, a continuum of support for families not only through the department of defense but also as far as through, um, the communities as well. and now the department of veterans affairs is getting very involved in helping families through their vet centers. so, there are a lot of areas which families can go to. but sometimes, they don't know what they don't know. and there is so much out there that they just don't know, where, um, um to go. um, and that was the piece that was missing for me when i came home. and we have those pieces now, like, my brother, he's done phenomenally because of, we had the information, we had all the programs available to us that

you have done a lot of work in most traumatic stress. are children's brains capable of overcoming this more easily than adults or do you find the opposite, does it affect them for the rest of their lives? >> they both can be affected by post-traumatic stress disorder, but kids are resilient. the same sort of episodes are sort lived. so just as your guest was saying, a lot of times it could be very subtle things. a little bit of regression, for example, in terms of development and temper tantrums. something that seems unusual, but oftentimes it could be more short-lived. i saw something very interesting, soledad, and we talked about this before. sleep can oftentimes be one of the first big -- sleep can be a very powerful predictor overall of how someone copes in the long-term. so even last night, tonight, parents watching and making sure their kids are getting sleep. i know it sounds like a simple thing, but if you look at the study, it's a powerful predictor how they will cope in the long rung. >> reporter: i want to go back to erik fish

i shutter to think what would happen if any of these women already so severely traumatized had been struck with tasers. we have one woman who suffered ritual abuse in piping by her parents from an early age we never know what will trigger her into aggressive behavior and she is about twice my size and i have to enter pose my tiny body between her and others more than once. but, always we have been able to bring her down. i do appreciate the police, and i appreciate the homeless out reach team who deal with this over and over. and i beg you, please, do not allow tasers. thank you. >> thank you very much. next speaker. i want to ask the police department to learn the side step when someone is coming towards you, with a knife, you learn the side step. i'm disabled and 79, and can do the side step, tasers and guns are not just about equal, or just about equal in the damage that they do to humans, not acceptable, period. the side step. >> and someone is approaching you with a little knife do the side step, thank you. >> next speaker please? >> michael lion, san francisco, gray panthers are abso

and it is traumatizing and not just traumatizing for the moms and the dads, but the kids are talking it. and i find that by the time i get home and i got home yesterday, my kids had had this c conversation with the friends and had it in school, and had it with one another, and they have whipped up their own fears. i mean, after the aurora shooting, my kids would not go to the movies. >> and my kid was like, and now we are watching movies at home. >> and they have still not seen the batman movie, because they refuse to go. and these are kids who are also in a new environment, and a bigger city, and what is frightening i think the most about this particular tragedy, you know, connecticut is a safe state. this is not going to happen somewhere in intercity chicago, but the fifth toughest gun law state in the nation. this happened in a state that is the third or the second or the third safest state in terms of gun crime. people move there so that these things won't happen and you can feel safe. >> joy, you have brought us exactly where we are going to take a break and come back to ari and

>> it's male. >> besides the one traumatic injury, are there any other serious injuries?> at this point just the one injury. >> that's the life flight thencht went by ground initially to a trauma institute. >> one injured in total and not -- >> as it stands right now, one injured that was transported, two dead and the shooter dead. >> how are you continuing the investigation inside? >> so right now our focus is we have nearly a hundred officers here from city, state, federal, local law enforcement and teams carefully searching the mall for anybody else who might be injured, anybody else who has hidden in there and we will search this entire mall until wee certain that it's secure and everybody has been removed. >> how many people are still inside? >> it's hard to tell at this point. we've already evacuated hundreds of people. there are probably less than that remaining in there. but until we search it all, i can't give you a number. >> at what time was this shooter neutralized, as you said? either shot himself or you killed him. >> i don't have a specific time, but obviou

and stunes are going to be traumatized and post traumatic stress and different and all like want troopso through. what do you expect to happen to the people in >>> the vet administration locked at 600 kids who were, thank god weren't killed will have stress disorder and they will be aggressive, sad or not feeling help and not sleeping well. it can last for months and months if not years. cognitive therapy helps. thank you. and coming up next. a former resident of that tight knit community is standing by. that is coming up next right here on hannity. >>> welcome back to hanuty as we continued the report on the school shooting. we go back to connecticut where a resident of that tight knit community is joining us. thank you for being with us. >>> you're welcome, sean. >>> tell us about the prayer vigil and information you might have picked up today. >>> the prayer vigil was absolute low beautiful. it was just unbelievable how many people showed up at this church and people outside and just crying. and love and hugging each other. it was absolutely wonderful. >>> yeah. >>> i am stow glad i

the shooter had been previously traumatiz traumatized. the virginia tech shooter murdered people, six lives were taken at a movie theater in colorado. in each case, the person showed signs of severe psychotic behavior and they were paranoid. 13 people were killed in colorado. one of the murderers was found out to be a psychopath. none of them had snapped. they had all left clues, pieced together after it was too late. we still don't know much about the shooter who lived in this home. but there is something else to consider. what medications, if any, he was on. and specifically, talking about antidepressants. if you look at the studies in other shootings like this that have happened, medications like this were a common factor. now, i want to be clear. not saying that antidepressants can't be effective. but research shows that there is a key between when somebody starts and stops, and decreased judgment and making somebody out of touch. none of this is an excuse, and it is never just one thing. none of these behaviors will fully predict or

this has been the most traumatic event anyone at this hospital has ever experienced, that's what i heard from a physician here who also is the president and ceo of danbury hospital. he talked about the moment he received the phone call expecting two dozen victims who will come here requiring immediate medical care. he amassed 80 doctors and nurses, the finest surgeons available to be prepared for anything and everything, and they only received three injured victims at this point. they said about ten minutes later, that's when they realized that no more were coming. it's important to note, he said, this obviously affected everyone who was in this hospital at the time. all the police officers, the firefighters, the children and teachers inside the school, the parents, there is no one in this community who wasn't affected. this means this is going to be a community that will require medical, emotional care for years to come. they have set up services that people can access 24 hours a day, seven days a week. they actually have mobile labs spread out throughout the community to help anyone wh

and traumatizing other people and it also talked about restoretive justice being a model. i know we're in a room filled with district attorneys and police officers, law enforcement. i'm curious what role law enforcement can play in restoretive justice, what can be imparted as groups of people who may or may not be connected with the trauma. once you are traumatized by the school, politicians, et cetera, et cetera, then you have more of these power dynamic things going on in your head, i'm going to exert whatever power i have on these people, i'm interested in hearing about the restoretive power that we want

and traumatizing other people and it also talked about restoretive justice being a model. i know we're in a room filled with district attorneys and police officers, law enforcement. i'm curious what role law enforcement can play in restoretive justice, what can be imparted as groups of people who may or may not be connected with the trauma. once you are traumatized by the school, politicians, et cetera, et cetera, then you have more of these power dynamic things going on in your head, i'm going to exert whatever power i have on these people, i'm interested in hearing about the restoretive power that we want to be part of the change. >> our organization just had a grant to partner with the department of justice to make films on exactly those kinds of things. we're going to be making a film on working with school resource officers and how to work with students. we don't believe we should even call anyone a bully because once you get labeled it stays with you. i've gotten letters saying there's a bully in my kid's first grade. the statistics show that about a third of the kid

take a rocket scientist to speculate that tasers will or will not do harm to someone who has been traumatized. it is obvious that it will. with health problems and heart, and traumaization that is a given. it is interesting that this is being brought up to, before the crisis team has happened. i could maybe, understand, maybe understand if they wanted to bring in the tasers after a few years of the pilot program, but to do this right away is obviously counter productive to a crisis team. like many people have said, we all come from families we all have also our jobs and we work personally and professionally with people in crisis, you have heard people say never have we thought that we need to use a taser. i have been in a series of parties with friends who end up hurting each other bad i never feel that a taser would deescalate any of those situations. so that is all that i got to say. and again, there is plenty of people in the medical field and doctor and they are not running to the arms of taser industry to ask to use tasers, i think that is counter productive. and yeah tha, is all that i

and stunes are going to be traumatized and post traumatic stress and different and all like want troopsugh. what do you expect to happen to the people in >>> the vet administration locked at 600 kids who were, thank god weren't killed will have stress disorder and they will be aggressive, sad or not feeling help and not sleeping well. it can last for months and months if not years. cognitive therapy helps. thank you. and coming up next. a former resident of that tight knit community is standing by. that is coming up next right here on hannity. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. information on my phone. connection to doctors who get where i'm from. and tools to estimate what my care may cost. so i never missed a beat. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. they don't help single moms. hi! hi! [ sarah ] what happened to our house last year? [ daughters ] it flood

and stunes are going to be traumatized and post traumatic stress and different and all like want troopst do you expect to happen to the people in >>> the vet administration locked at 600 kids who were, thank god weren't killed will have stress disorder and they will be aggressive, sad or not feeling help and not sleeping well. it can last for months and months if not years. cognitive therapy helps. thank you. and coming up next. a former resident of that tight knit community is standing by. that is coming up next right here on hannity. [ male announcer ] red lobster's hitting the streets to tell real people about our new 15 under $15 menu. oh my goodness! oh my gosh, this looks amazing! [ male announcer ] our new maine stays! 15entrees under $15, seafood, chicken and more! oothe tilapiawith roastedegetab! i'm actually looking at the wo grilled chicken with portobello wine sauce. at pork chop was great! no more fast food friday's! we're going to go to red lobster. yep. [ male announcer ] come try our new menu and sea food differently and introducing 7 lunch choices for just $7.99. salad,

she is traumatized, too. i think we all are a little here. we don't get this stuff, we're all in shock. but i'm confident, it's christmas, i'm confident we can make it through. >> how are you doing? what you saw is something no one should see, let alone a teenager? >> was horrifying. it's very -- mentally paralyzing. i can't put into words. you know, i haven't been able to sleep. last night, my -- i dropped a bottal from my b bottle from my bed, woke up crying. i'm taking this hard, but i'm confident we can make it through this. >> what are you and your friends talking about? it's important at a time like this, especially someone who has been through what you have been through, to talk to people. if you need to, to talk to a professional. >> right. i have not seeked professional help yet. i'm not sure i will. i want to clear my mind first. do my own mental analyzization and see from there. i had friends chat with me from overseas, locally. ask me if i'm okay. you know, again, to them i want to say thank you. again, we'll make it through this.

i think it's very question we should avoid when our souls have been traumatized to the degree it has. sure our finite minds embrace the plan and wisdom of god and to really try to quantify exactly why such things happen, the only thing that i share with our congregation that's very important to understand, god has given us a human will, a free will which we enjoy with arts and drama and science and all the things we're able to explore. he gave us that free will and then gave us an added influence of a marshall that we call conscious and when the brain works appropriately, we don't have a problem. when someone's brain does not work appropriately, that free will can be devastating and we owe it upon ourselves to look out for those mentally, motionally or psychologically disturbed and get the help they need before they go to this type of violence. >> absolutely. and we have talked about what type of weapons to ban and what legislation can be put forth. but you discussed those who are mentally ill and suffering, if you will, and with their own demons there. but what do you believe can be

with respect to the traumatic brain injuries and other types of things, that's much simpler for people to kind of understand that you had a concussive event or you had a t.b.i., traumatic brain injury, that's caused problems. we should be developing ways of helping to manage and treat those problems just like we do individuals who have the other types of problems. >> let me just add one thing there, which is it's a good question, but it highlights one of the challenges of introducing neuroscience today in the courtroom. at kent showed you some of his slides and mentioned during his talk, he is trying to develop treatments as he develops abilities to diagnose psychopathy. but that's what comes first is the diagnosis. if that is what is introduced first before there are any treatments available, which is the status of much of the neuroscience today, then there isn't a treatment that is available. and so part of the problem today is it tends to serve as an aggravating factor because you can't say, well, here is a simple way to fix that thing that we have identified. in a few cases where d

that re- enforces the traumatic imagery in their minds and traumatizes them." >> and, as terrible as the shooting was. norman says it can be used as a learning lesson. "parents should be mindful of reassuring their children, but not promising them a non-realistic sense that it can never ever happen to them or anybody ever again. only that thank the heavens it's a very very rare event, and for every horrible person who committs there are many more good people." norman says kids who have been exposed to excessive violence in the past. may be the most at risk here. if talking doesn't help. seek professional guidance. ana was just bright and full police were negotiating with have had a hostage. coming up next. adults to grasp. >> police and youth group held a gun buy back program in the east bay -- just a day after the school shooting massacre. nearly two hundred cars with guns in their trunks waited hours to turn in guns for cash saturday afternoon in oakland. it was one of the most succesful gun by back programs ever held in the city. for each gun turned in, the owner received two hund

question and i'm going to rephrase it a little bit, but why is it that we treat people who have, say, traumatic brain injuries or other diagnosed mental illnesses in the criminal justice system rather than in the mental health system? [applause] >> so what i showed you today was to give you that exact what is neuroscience doing in the legal is system and so that person of the person with the tumor, you could all see that and so can a radiologist. but the else that we do know of those images. no radiologist can just see by looking at them. we are so sensitive to individual differences in i.q., in age, in all of these different availables, psychopathy scores, whatever it is, we can develop beautiful pictures of these things. so the question is, how is the legal system going to deal with all of these different, you know, images and other types of things that we can now tell you about your brain and how is that going to change things? so i tend to view, you know, individuals who have brain differences for whatever reason worthy of developing better treatments for them that can help to remediate tho

then at 5, animals used to bring relief to families traumatize by -- traumatized by the sandy hook schoolhooting. >>> big sister's mission to find her little brother the perfect gift is paying off. >> 13-year-old didn't have to go to the north pole she went to youtube to make an appeal for her 4-year-old brother gavin and the one thing he wants from santa this year. >> a more gender neutral color for that easy bake oven. hasbro was listening and will soon offer a new model, silver and black easy bake oven will be available in the fall of next year it will have wire rims and spinners. >> we have to check in with our friend ryan scott see if he would have minded a oven. >> he may have used his sisters. >> maybe. >> great shep. >> for all of us here at abc7 news thanks for joining us. who wants to be a millionaire is next. >> if you receive a smartphone remember you can be connected with abc7 news all the times through our apps, alarm clock app, and -- >> and our abc7 news app is available for all those devices as well as the ipad devices as well as the ipad download our app for free. [drama

very traumatic situation. it seemed so stupid at first and then it was actually helpful.tic. you're okay. you're going to do just fine. >> and it was a breakthrough. it would have been taken me a year if i was meeting with justin in my office. >> reporter: lyz said she had never seen justin so vulnerable. two weeks later, one final exercise. it's aimed with justin coping his past. >> you abandoned all of us. i had to be the man of the family. >> reporter: inside the pen, justin is 9 years old again. the age when his sister was murdered and his father split. lyz plays the role of his dad. >> i get more determined to never be as pathetic as you are. >> reporter: at this crucial moment, danny seems to sense that his new friend needs help. and in a rare sign of trust, some of the horses lay down behind justin. >> i'm already better than you. >> reporter: others join him by his side. >> they're giving us messages. what is the 9-year-old justin think they're telling us? >> that they don't have to -- >> you don't have to what? >> keep fighting. you know, you don't have to be so

after they're discharged they're just as likely as men to suffer disorders like post traumatic stress syndrome. female veterans are less likely to get the help they need. >> some days it's a struggle for the army soldier to put food on the table. she hasn't had a job since 2009. it didn't take long before her savings were exhausted. and she and her two daughters were left homeless. she said she was let down by the government she served. >> joining the military was really bad because before i left i was stable and ok. >> it wasn't until a trip to the emergency room at the manhattan's veteran's hospital that she finally found the help that she needed. though the overwhelming majority are men, this room is exclusively for female veterans, 20% who say they have experienced sexual trauma. >> the government acknowledges the problem is even more widespread because so many women are afraid to report attacks especially while in active service. >> i felt very uncomfortable seeking any active duty for fear of retribution. i didn't want to get into it while i was there. >> once i bring it out in

how can a parent possibly heal from such a traumatic event. the role of religion and faith and healing in this faith and healing in this process. i thought i'd start the video by showing you the apartment building where the fire was. when things like this happen, i think you find a new perspective on life. red cross put us in a hotel so we were able to stay together. we're strong and if we overcame that or if we can overcome that... we can overcome anything. [ sniffles ] ♪ davino. >> she heard everything the shots and the doors slamming and people yelling. she just wanted to come home. her heart was racing. she was scared. >> the first funeral for one of the young angels killed in the shooting is set for tomorrow. 6-year-old noah pozner will be laid to rest in fairfield, connecticut. with me is grief counselor robinwoodman and dr. sam now is still with us. talk to me about this week parents bauurying their childre. it's counter indue tive that's supposed to be the other way. >> what happens is they feel like it should have been them. there's n

they are traumatized. and a lot of it shows up in the workplace. this is one critical issue that we deal with, in general the eap tries to hit them from any time, so we prevent critical incidents and we intervene and we head off dangerous situations when we can and we help the city/county employees work through the trauma by debriefing following a traumatic incident and so for example, the zoo, i was out there doing critical debriefings with the zoo keepers and the dog mauling and i was out at animal control and the fire that killed two firefighters in diamond heights, i was there with the 911 dispatchers trying to help with their trauma and grief and guilt, guilt feelings. so, being a behavior risk management agency, we are tooting our horn a little bit. one reason why you don't see headlines in the paper stating that a disgruntled city employee harmed their supervisor or co-workers. so a clear, specific policy on domestic violence in the workplace is really crucial for a dangerous tie to dangerous pattern of domestic violence in the workplace tha

he got a traumatic brain injury as well. i want to show you the first thing i saw when i got here to dallas. she cared and loved everybody. she was five months pregnant at the time. that's the little guy's feet. little feet. and he passed away that night. the only way we're going to change this drinking and driving and get it to stop is change minds and hearts one at a time. by making this video i think that -- well i tried to do that. >> the drunk driver that struck the car your car was in, what's his status now? >>s his name is matthew moore. he was almost twice the legal limit. he was not injured. he's currently awaiting trial. >> her medical bills are already in the millions. how do you think you're going to pay for them? are you trying to raise money? >> i'm poor, disabled. and i'm just doing the best i can. i've got to give her a decent quality of life. i'll do whatever it takes. >> please don't drink and drive. >>> northern california has been battered by serious storms and some redwoods didn't make it. check this out

then at 5, animals used to bring relief to families traumatize by -- traumatized by the sandy hook schooloting. >>> big sister's mission to find her little brother the perfect gift is paying off. >> 13-year-old didn't have to go to the north pole she went to youtube to make an appeal for her 4-year-old brother gavin and the one thing he wants from santa this year. >> a more gender neutral color for that easy bake oven. hasbro was listening and will soon offer a new model, silver and black easy bake oven will be available in the fall of next year it will have wire rims and spinners. >> we have to check in with our friend ryan scott see if he would have minded a oven. >> he may have used his sisters. >> maybe. >> great shep. >> for all of us here at abc7 news thanks for joining us. who wants to be a millionaire is next. >> if you receive a smartphone remember you can be connected with abc7 news all the times through our apps, alarm clock app, and -- >> and our abc7 news app is available for all those devices as well as the ipad [ female announcer ] this is a spececial message from at&. [ ma

the fact is that that sense of vulnerability and violence and the post traumatic stress that it generates for young people, who live in these conditions, so we're going to see it in this hyper-focused, horrible moment of this tragedy, but the fact is that we are seeing it for a whole generation of people all across this country. >> a very fair and well made point. w nbc is reporting that an fbi spokesman in connecticut says fbi agents are on the scene offering assistance and support to state and local authorities. the fbi is defefring all comments about the incident and investigation to local authorities. we are also getting word of two news conferences within the hour. one from the danbury hospital and one center state police. we will have more information after the break. even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've bought ragu for years. [ thinking ] wonder what other questionable choices i've made? i choose date number 2! whooo! [ sigh of relief ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego. [ male announcer ] jill and her mouth have lived a great life. but she has some dental issu

and it is funny to think about these events, but a very traumatic and seious.d the fiscal clff. we are talking about over $607 billion worth of money taken out of the economyext year. lou: i just want to put up the next cartoon that we have. it matters not which one you select. but this is one of my favorites. the debt commission saying it is verydifficult. is very complicated and then cut spending. i don't think you could have cut better on to the essence of the issue. the absurdity creating obstacles to that resolution in washington d.c. >> but the problem here is that frankly there is a fine and out capital that can be used up their divided either in the private sector which reates businesses and jobs and federal revenue or given to the government which is just a bureaucracy and creates nothing but bureaucratic management. if you look atthe last gop congress and the expenditures, about two and half trillion dollars and now the president's proposals are about 4 trillion in spending with deficits and increased. it is the economy. lou: it trly is. and i want to

but first, more than several million americans suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. nightmares, to where a normal life can be impossible, also tough to treat. in fact, many that suffer are not helped by existing therapies. but there is new emerging research, pointing to a drug that most people simply know as ecstasy. >> some part of you is on guard. it just wouldn't stop, couldn't shut it down. >> for rachel hope the mental agony began in childhood, when she says she was abused and raped. for a grown-up, a familiar smell would bring it all back. >> i would get very extreme stabbing sensations in my body, and like fixed visuals, like being, for instance, raped. >> reporter: mental breakdowns, four times in the hospital. and along the way she tried almost every treatment in the book. >> i tried endr, rapid eye movement therapy, nothing worked. >> reporter: and then she discovered an experiment. run by a psychiatrist in charleston, south carolina. >> this is a place where we do the study, meet with people and do the sessions. >> reporter: intense therapy, including eigh

. >>> and could be the key here to helping millions who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. we use this board to compare car insurance rates side by side so you get the same coverage, often for less. that's one smart board. what else does it do, reverse gravity? [ laughs ] [ laughs ] [ whooshing ] tell me about it. why am i not going anywhere? you don't believe hard enough. a smarter way to shop around. now that's progressive. call or click today. [ grunting ] >>> a soldier comes back from war, and learns he has been programmed to respond to certain triggers, in this case, the queen of diamonds to kill a presidential candidate. but can we be triggered like that really? can sights and sounds and smells make us do things we wouldn't ordinarily do, like spend too much holiday shopping we had not planned to buy? human behavior expert wendy walsh is back with us, my lip s are still in bed -- is back with me. the answer is, can we be more programmed to sights and sounds, that stores pump into us? absolutely, that is why we do it. >> yes, and a lot of research has been done to crea

he himself traumatic brain injury survivor investigating how to prevent brain trauma and post traumaticest intytizeing the war yore -- anesthetizing the soldier rather than using morphine. for lisa peck, the medical advances gave her back her only son. >> i kept reminding myself i have him, he has me. >> she sat by the bedside at walt every reed for two-and-a-half months with her hand on his chest so he could feel her presence until he woke up. >> i would take my ipod and put an ear bud in his ear and one in mine and sing to the music he knew i was there. i would talk to him like i knew he could hear me. i still need you here. you have work to do. a lot of good. you're still young. hang in there. >> he did. now he is getting his life back on track. >> i don't have arms. i don't have legs. stuff could be worse. it could have no mobility whatsoever. >> stuff can always be worse. there is always something worse going on. >> in washington, jennifer griffin, fox news. >> doug: hero would be an adequate word to describe a lot of people in that piece. fox all-stars join me after the break to t

i was not traumatized by the train. maybe why do not drive. but also like a teddy bear. i cannot put it in a dress. i cut bras with newspaper or a magazine and would use pins to make that bra. to me, it was like the silhouettes as of may be on the tv. we saw a lot of movies. so i tried to reconstitute the body of a woman. and -- >> how old were you at this point? >> i think i was around -- i was around, i was a round -- the teddy bear, i got it at 3:00, but i let him free at that time at the three years old. i let him free. i think i was around five years old that i started to take care of him. first, very important, i was -- [unintelligible] seeing on my grandmother. she had white hair. so i was putting on the the bear a little color that was kind of blue. after that, i do not know why, but i said he has to change. so it was more red, which was a strong color, too. then i try to make it black. that did not work. the texture of the paintings, because i was putting paintings on him, did not go with it. so i had to destroy it and start again. blue, red, start again. all th