i wonder whether or not you think that that trc model might be more effective in communities like theyried in greensboro. >> i think so. i don't think it's a panacea. it doesn't take care of things by itself. so many of the things i saw were incremental steps. >> right. >> at first it's hard to go see, you know, how much difference did it -- hard to say, you know, how much difference did it all make. you can see the difference when people can no longer make stuff up. you can't create the equivalency for one thing. you create the foundation for the apology. you cate that sense of, okay, we see that something wrong happened, now what? where's the apology, where's the restituti restitution, how do we make it right now? if you take them one step at a time, i think it's important. >> yeah. your magazine "yes," celebrating the 20th anniversary. the book is "the revolution where you live." it seems to me that what you are in search of are things that wo -- put another way, good news. you and i know from our training that news by definition is an aberration. maybe good news these days is the a