when you deal with corporate securities, when you deal with high-yield securities, unlike treasu treasuriest's hard to discern where they're priced, are they rich, are they cheap. we know at the beginning of the year when equity markets were under duress, what happened to corporates and high yields? >> they blew out. spreads blew out. it was amazing. never seen anything like it. >> so, looking at a five-year chart of barclays, whether it's investment grade or high yield, you'll see we challenged 2012. >> correct. >> and with the spreads widened, of course, it gets a little more dicey. that's your risk-off trade. >> exactly. it was definitely a risk-off period. equities down, oil tanking, amazingly so, and of course, credit followed suit. >> okay. now we fast-forward. we're flirting with unchange in equities, the equities have righted themselves. what's happened to corporate securities? >> corporate spreads have come in a lot. yields are down 2% on high yield, but we still like them, rick. they're still attractive. spreads are much wider than june of last year and even wider than june of 201