the state department seeks a different path than the treasury department. the war department is all in on this idea we should when the were soon as possible. the treasury department is favoring a yes and approach. we can win the war, we can administer humanitarian aid and try to rescue all. -- rescue people. the treasury department wins out in that debate in 1944 in that is why the u.s. has a rescue -- most of those people who were saved had no idea the u.s. government was behind any of that work. moment where the takes the turn, where the treasury department starts to win the argument. it's a really interesting moment in american history. we can diverge resources. our actions can match our rhetoric about democratic values. ever -- i apologize for asking too many questions again. what was the turning point that got treasury to win? there's a couple things in play. there's a resolution in congress : four rescue response. there are activist advocating. there is an orthodox rabbi march on washington. and then the treasury department lays out a case against the

so you could say the state department takes, clearly takes a different path from the treasury department. the state department is all-in, and department is all-in, on the idea we should just win the war as soon as possible to not divert resources. the treasury department favors a yes-and approach, that we can win the war but also administer humanitarian aid, try to rescue people, and that won't divert resources from the war effort. the treasury department wins out in that debate in 1944, and that's why the u.s. has a rescue operation set up in january 1944 that saves tens of thousands of lives before the end of the war. most of those people who are saved have no idea that the u.s. government is behind any of that work, but they are. . andmoment in which u.s government response takes a turn, the moment when the treasury department starts to win the argument, is a really interesting moment in u.s. history that they are successful in their argument that we can divert some resources, that our actions can match our rhetoric about democratic values. >> and was there ever, and i apologize for a

we're getting treasury department's reaction to the request for donald trump's tax returns.ll bring that to you, next. >>> also, the divide over impeaching president trump grows among democratic white house hopefuls, as you saw in our cnn town halls. which way will they push their party? so, you're open all day, that's what 24/7 means, sugar. kind of like how you get 24/7 access to licensed agents with geico. hmm? yeah, you just go online, or give them a call anytime. you don't say. yep. now what will it take to get 24/7 access to that lemon meringue pie? pie! pie's coming! that's what it takes, baby. geico®. great service from licensed agents, 24/7. (michelle) i know what it's like to be in a financially struggling family. we had a lot of leftovers...[chuckles] i couldn't have asked for better parents, but like most people they didn't have anyone to teach them the best financial habits. so we changed that. as a financial health coach, i help people every day. i try to put myself in their shoes from my own experience. i connect to them because i've been there. helping famili

they say this is a plitatization of the treasury department and not something richard neal should be richard neal has maintained he has the authority under 6103 in the irs code that says the house ways and means chairman can ask for tax information from any individual and that treasury has to turn it over. so that's where that fight stands. of course, we have been saying all along, ana, that we expect it to go to court. >> okay, lauren fox. you'll keep us posted. thank you. joining us to talk more about this, cnn legal analyst anne milgram, a professor at nyu law school. let's start with the mueller report. about two days away. you heard the white house message being essentially they think the public narrative that was initially put out is probably set in. again, no collusion, and they're hoping people also aren't looking to learn anything about obstruction. what will you be looking for? >> i'll be looking a lot at the obstruction piece. barr wrote a four-page summary of a 400-plus page report. we know there's a lot missing. there were a lot of troubling things in my view about barr'

the treasury department says no more. cracking down on the troika of tyranny.f the daily wire and video columnist at the daily caller, stephanie hamel. this is our market will be a lot of florida described it this way. because the cuba regime doesn't allow them to travel freely the only way cuban baseball players can make it to mlb is to escape. regime cut a deal to allow players to leave but only if they pay a ransom. they want legalized trafficking of persons. >> an interesting thing. we were hearing a lot of different information. a lot of people upset saying the trump administration just attacking obama policy trying to reverse it but the administration has a great point. there trying to increase pressure on cuba over cuba's support over the brutal dictator nicholas madero in venezuela. the trump administration says they're willing to work with major league baseball and the players separately. and to make sure the money the players are making isn't going to fund the government of cuba's. >> the way i understand it is they pay a signing bonus to the player a

he is addressing it to the treasury department, the counsel at the treasury department. he makes a reference to asking the treasury department to wait until the justice department basically tells them what to do. what's your reaction to that part of it? >> well, i don't really see any fwrounds for that at all. again, the law is very clear, and i thought that chairman neal's request was actually very smart also in that it was quite targeted. so, you know, there is a limited amount of information that's being requested, and i would think that depending on how difficult it is to assemble it, it could be forwarded fairly quickly. i don't really see the need for the justice department interpretation. the law is really pretty straightforward. >> and congressman gomez, the president has always said as a campaigner and he still says you can't see my tax returns because they are being audited. we don't know if that was ever true when he was a candidate, but it is true that the president's tax returns are routinely automatically audited by the irs, but barack obama as president di

let's bring in jeffrey toobin, the treasury department and the ten-page single spaced letter said theyeed more time to -- may 6th to consult with the justice department to see whether the request from the house democrats is legal. >> wow, i bet the tension is building about whether they're going to turn over those tax returns. especially since the white house chief of staff already said they are never turning them over. this is just part of how the -- the justice department, the whole trump administration is dealing with the house of representatives which is we're not turning over anything until the courts tell us to. this one is particularly egregious in the tax return department because the law is so clear that the internal revenue service shall turn over, that is what the law says "shall" turn over a tax return but they'll string this out as long as possible and given the way the courts go it is likely to be months before this issue is resolved, if it is resolved at all before donald trump's term is over. >> and it comes when the white house is fighting all sorts of -- >> everything

the secretary also must provide this committee with complete answers today regarding the treasury department's actions to the list companies associated with the russian old guard. he is a criminal and who should not be let off the hook from sanctions that were put in place to punish bad actors. i am very concerned that the agreement the treasury implemented sends exactly the wrong message. other russian oligarchs and putin himself because he was still will do a great deal of influence over his previously sanctioned companies. including at the summit last summer when trump in explicitly cited with putin over his own justice department when the fbi indicted 12 russian intelligence officer for conspiracy to interfere in the 2016 u.s. presidential elections. very troubling it appears that this dynamic may be effecting sanctions policy with the trump administration's treasury department for enabling russian bad actors moreover congress mandated several sanctions to be placed on russia. the treasury has still not implemented these including sanctions required by the chemical and biological weapons a

requested president trump's tax returns is trying to figure out his next move today, this after the treasury department right. a lot of power in the hands of the treasury secretary steven mnuchin. he sent a letter to the house ways and means commissioner richard neal letting him know they would not comply with the request. now neal is going to send another letter back, but he has irs code on his side. >> again, the reading of that law says that the treasury department shall provide this to the committee. and so the argument we're hearing from democrats is saying how long does it take you to actually determine the meaning of the word shall? nonetheless, this is a pretty unprecedented request. despite its basis in statute here. and so that's the argument that treasury secretary steve mnuchin is making saying look, we need more time to assess this request. and so he says in his letter to richard neal, the committee requests the materials by april 10th but the treasury department will not be able to complete its review of your request by that date. for the same reasons, i intend to supervise the department

it's a decision that the treasury department can make. >> all right. argument to be made. >> jimmy, i hear you. don't filibuster. one point at a time, jimmy. one point at a time. jimmy, one point at a time. elliot -- >> yeah, all right. >> that is not how litigation works when you don't like the operation of a statute. the irs gets to figure out whether or not they want to comply. why would they think about whether or not they want to comply unless they were advancing the interests of the president of the united states? >> and, again, chris, just big picture here, look at what's at issue. every single president of the united states since richard nixon has made their tax returns public. every single presidential candidate of both parties since i believe -- >> and nixon was under audit when he did it. >> again, as we said, the audit issue has no bearing here on congress' ability -- >> jimmy agrees with that. >> i agree with that. >> but i think, you know, we're getting into the minutia of this 1924 statute. a basic norm of government violated by this pre

this marks the first time we are hearing that the white house could be playing a role in the treasury department'sision to release donald trump's taxes despite a law that is meant to limit political involvement. here's what steve mnuchin said earlier -- >> our legal department has had conversations prior to receiving the letter with the white house general counsel. >> and did they brief you as to the contents of that communication? >> they have not briefed me to the contents of that communication. i believe that was purely informational. >> you believe what was purely informational? >> i believe that the communication between our legal department and the white house general counsel was informational, that we obviously had read in the press, that we were expecting this. >> quick asterisk, before being named treasury secretary, steve mnuchin was the finance chair of president donald trump's campaign. he is well versed in president trump not releasing his tax returns. >> correct. >> during the campaign. he doesn't need a conversation now. he knows the intention. >> joining us is white house economic

the treasury department has made the determination.d as this u.s. tourist and her guide in uganda on safari were kidnapped. there has been a dispute over whether a ransom was paid to get her back or whether she was rescued. this is what secretary of state mike pompeo said not long ago about ransom demand. >> please remember that any payment to a terrorist or terrorist regime gives money so that they can seize more of our people. we cannot accept that risk. you wouldn't ask that for us. even a small payment, to a group in africa can facilitate the killing or seizure of tens or hundreds of others, including americans are foreign nationals in that region. >> shannon: is a administration got a lot of credit for getting captives home from hostile foreign places, secretary was pretty clear there, there is a dispute over whether this was a ransom paid or not. we know she is safe. >> we've heard multiple reports saying that it was the wild frontier sr her -- >> shannon: the tour group. >> "the new york times" reported on that. it has not been

into the legal argument that the president's outside attorneys are makmaking, and they ask the treasury department to consult with the justice department attorneys before making any decision. because ultimately, wolf, this is up to the irs, to figure out how to handle this request. and the law, and what it means for the president, this unprecedented request. as you know, democrats have argued, they have the legal footing to do this. that this is their oversight responsibility. so this is just beginning of the fight, wolf. >> in the law, it says if the house, ways, and means committee asks for the tax returns of someone, the secretary of the treasury shall furnish such committee with any return or return information specified. so that's what the democrats' argument is. a white house source, as you just heard in jim acosta's report, says they're willing to take this fight all the way to the supreme court. so what does that signal about how long this fight could take? >> i spoke to one source familiar with the matter today, who said, it's going to be a while until anyone sees the president's tax retu

his lawyers also weighed in on a letter to the treasury department, they asked that trump returns not be released. writing this about house democrats. the president is their political opponent, they want to use the information to damage him politically. they add the irs should reframe from divulging the request until it justice department's legal counsel. michael cohen suggests to congress that he has dirt on the president but he'll give it to the democrats. he regains access to files that the fbi seized last year. 14 million other documents. trump dismissed cohen saying he's not worried about any new potential revelations. >> he lied numerous times during his last testimonies. they had it for many months. >> cohen is scheduled to head to prison on may 6th. he pleaded guilty to several crimes including a campaign scheme. that scheme involved hush money payments during the 2016 campaign to two women who said they had affairs with mr. trump. exactly one year ago today, the katherine lucy is standing by to join us momentarily. she asked trump about the payments to one of those payments.

and what happened, the treasury department fashioned $25 million it was the first bailout of thanks that the government pay for and said to j.p. morgan here's $25 million figure it out. and they gathered in the library with major bakers at the time haand he decided to pursue the money to the friends and they all got together and a lot of the other banks failed at the time but that was a situation where he became known because he let his bank survive and he saved this panic as the king of baking. the new york times called him that as well. the history goes back to that. between the 1890s and 1920s. they were very influential for money and will have a politically and have the treasury department ultimately survive the panic at the time. >> tr was known for being the trust buster for not liking big business or railing against thet least. >> what he busted was nonbanks. at the time standard oil which was a major oil company, he actually did bus stop some of the more powerful elements to try to make them more competitivevi environment. but he stayed away from banks. if you look at the history

treasury department plays a vital role in helping identify and stop the flow of illicit funds. mr. secretary, what steps is the treasury currently taking to stop the flow of resources to hezbollah? what are we doing to stop iranian resources from going to hezbollah? >> we have the toughest sanctions on iran. we are very focused on has below working on people in the region. one reason i need to leave this evening is because i have a by lap focused on combating -- >> last year the congress passed the has below international amendments act of 2018 to increase our ability to target the global financial and reach. what steps has the treasury taken to implement specifically this new legislation? >> first while we appreciate the additional funding we have had to build up these resources. again, since were running out of time will follow up with you on the specific steps. >> thank you. >> i now recognize myself for five minutes. mr. secretary, you recently had an encounter with ethics and this had to do with an entity you sold tiered then fiancÉ, now why. and by the way this is no way inten

that's a way to bring the money into the treasury department. it's taken into the budget process and that can get a proppated into things like infrastructure. we have a deficit in the country. everyone who was in the process trying to get elected last election including president trump talked about paying money into infrastructure. it's a problem we have, you know, bridges are falling apart. railways that are slow and hospitals that are in need of better equipment or roads to get to them. again, that's a significant problem for the country. retrieving money from companies or this would benefit them as well. back wit when president eisenhor was the president he came up with a plan to build our nations highways. he came up with that plan and raised taxes and built the highways and resided over a number of economics. they spoke about inequality being a problem. throughout the rest of the country. an antidote i found going through. a lot of time in kansas looking at his notes and all of this. the documents from thatpired in history. there was a pers

written to apply to the treasury secretary since the internal revenue service is part of the treasury department. but in his op-ed piece, former treasury secretary larry somers says the treasury secretary should have absolutely nothing to do with chairman richie neal's demand for the trump tax returns because the treasury secretary years ago specifically delegated this responsibility directly to the commissioner of the irs. larry somers writes the an appropriate response of the treasury secretary is very clear. under a long-standing delegation order, the secretary does not get involved in taxpayer specific matters and has del guyed to the irs commissioners as follows, "the commissioner of internal revenue shall be responsible for the administration and enforcement of the internal revenue laws." moreover, this is not a delegation that is readily revokable. federal law provides that if the secretary determines not to delegate a power such determination may not take effect until 30 days after the secretary notifies the tax writing and other specified committees. so the, so far the secretary to seek

does the treasury department have a legit argument that will hold up in court? who do you think wins this battle? >> i think chairman neal wins this battle. the law is clear. the law says "shall." it says if they ask for these reports, the treasury department shall give them to them. they have an oversight obligation. part of their job is to do oversight, and that's they're trying to reveal what says they shall give this report over. i think chairman neal will win if this ends up going to court. >> danny, it's so interesting. there's been all this arguing over the interpretation of the word "shall." does "shall" mean you do it? >> when does "shall" not mean "shall"? arguably if you don't reach the issue of the word "shall." the word "shall" is ambiguous. it means you must. we speak to thou should and thou shalt. there is no interpretation other than you must. the republicans' argument is you never reach the issue of "shall" if the underlying purpose of the request is not a legitimate committee purpose. only a legitimate committee purpose gives you the blessing t

>> reporter: in this new letter trump's personal attorneys say again to the treasury department thatshould not turn over the president's personal tax information, that six years of personal tax returns, six years of business tax returns to the house ways and means chairman richard neal. now, richard neal had sent a follow-up left over the weekend to the irs commissioner essentially doubling down on his requests for the president's tax information. he set a new deadline of april 23rd at 5:00 p.m. saying that he needed to have that information in hand, and if they did not respond he was basically taking that as a no, so clearly this fight is just heating up. you know, democrats have been arguing that the fact that the president's personal lawyers are writing to treasury hand making these kind of demands essentially is, you know, just inappropriate behavior. they have been arguing that trump's personal attorney should not be having a stake in this, that the law 6103, the statute that they say gives the treasury department -- they cannot refuse richard neal's request. trump's perm lawyer

senator, your reaction to the president's legal team's letter to the treasury department? >> jake, i will be very blunt. chairman neal, powerful man, head of ways and means, i know he's an adult, but i don't think he's like a real adult. he says that he needs trump's tax returns. he says it's policy, not politics. he has said, i think on cnn, that the reason he needs them is that he needs to determine how well the irs is auditing taxpayers. i can't believe he really thinks the american people are going to fall for that. it must really suck to be that dumb. look, this is very simple. mr. neal wants to screw with the president. he doesn't think the president ought to be president. well, you know, words can't express how much i don't care. it's not mr. neal's call. the american people have chosen donald trump as president. if you don't like it, in two years, you can vote against him. in the meantime, don't screw with him, let him try to be president. now, mr. neal is not in good faith. nobody believes he's in good faith. this is wildly dishonest. this is thoroughly in bad fai

his new attorney just sent a letter to the treasury department responding to a top democrat's demand for the irs to hand over six years worth of mr. trump's tax returns. the lawyer arguing the request amounts to presidential harassment. a white house official says the trump team is willing to take this fight all the way to the u.s. supreme court. >>> also breaking, president trump visits the southern border with mexico after days of confusing comments about whether he'd schett shut down traffic and trade out of mexico. the border is still hope after mr. trump backed off the threat to close it as early as this week. eye talki i'll talk to a member of the house ways and means that's seeking the tax returns. and our correspondents and analysts are standing by. first to our chief white house correspondent, jim acosta. jim, the president spoke about this fight over his taxes just a while ago while visiting the southern border. >> reporter: that's right, wolf. it doesn't sound like he's giving them up. the president was at the border promoting his call for the border wall and used incendia

congress could seek to hold the treasury department in contempt.likely what will happen is they'll end up having to go to the court over this. the letter of that law that they are relying upon is quite plain. it says shall. so there's not really any wiggle room for the treasury department. they seem to be following according to treasury secretary the argument that had been made by president trump private lawyer. which is rather interesting. they also will be asking the justice department legal counsel to weigh in on this. but to me as legal analyst it seems like a weak defense. or no defense at all. the ramifications will be that they'll litigate the issue. >> interesting. just to set the same president trump said wednesday he would love to release taxes but can't because he's under audit. just a few days ago he said he will fight this all the way to the supreme court. and acting chief of staff says democrats will never see trumps tax returns. so clearly he'll to whatever it takes to resist releasing them. you mention the court and specifically the

what happened was the treasury department fashion $25 million, kind of the first bailout of banks that the government paid for and set a jg morgan here 255 million, figure it out. what j.p. morgan tegucigalpa in his library, major bankers at the time and what he decide to do is parcel of money to some of them, all the strength, shares with him, they hung out together. i i love the other banks failedt the time but that was a situation where he then became known because he let his banks survive and he saved his panic a sort of the king of banking. new times called him that as well. the history goes back between 1890s and 1920 because 20s because really around the morgan bank they were very influential for money and also for what happened politically and have treasury department and the presidency ultimately survived their panic. >> host: but tr was known for being the trust buster, for not liking big business, or writing against it at least publicly. >> guest: and he was. he is noted as any was the was the trust buster. what he busted was nonbanks. but the time standard oil which is majo

how do you fight the white house and the treasury department. one of the newest democrats to join the presidential race joins the show. medicare for all he supports and what it will take to beat trump in ohio. who is the most influential voice in trump's ears? not in his administration and it's not sean hannity, but you're close. much more ahead. hannity, but you're close much more ahead. ng for another 150 years. ♪ to inspire confidence through style. ♪ i'm working to make connections of a different kind. ♪ i'm working for beauty that begins with nature. ♪ to treat every car like i treat mine. ♪ at adp we're designing a better way to work, so you can achieve what you're working for. ♪ or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven to reduce joint swelling, tenderness, and pain. and the ot

i'm really hoping, especially with tax season in full gear is that we can have the treasury work with the guam department of revenue and taxation to figure out what the earned income tax credit amount the treasury should be paying for the taxpayers for guam paying this. i also want to put it on the record, mr. secretary this is not something new. the treasury for years has been paying out the additional child tax credit on guam and so in order for us to be consistent with the treasury funding the actc , i humbly ask the treasury to do its part to fund the eitc on guam. this is very critical, mr. secretary for a variety of reasons. one of them is the fact that with poverty rates so high on guam, the diversion of general fund coffers in the territory of guam to fund the eitc payouts impacts education and it impacts health and it impacts public safety and those diversions also result in deficits to the territory because we are having to pull other tax resources that would be otherwise to meet our protections. so the time is for us to have the conversation not only have the treasury fund the eitc on guam goi

let's talk about the communication issue you mentioned, the treasury department and tax experts are allg the government should have done a better job at explaining to folks what the tax cuts meant and how they would work. if you were going to get the equivalent of the $2,000 she got in her paychecks, somebody needed to tell you you're not also getting this and your refund: i think it's clear that a lot of people wouldn't know that. we're both finance people. we wouldn't know how that translates into our refund. >> that's exactly right, ali. it's a complicated thing for your average person. most people have no idea this is how it works. a lot of americans rely on that refund as a sort of automatic savings plan for a certain part of the year. that's what a lot of people do. a big disappointment, even though the policy did what it was supposed to do. it did cut people's taxes. >> i appreciate you're in our wheel house and talking taxes, but i think we have to talk about this black hole. >> oh, good, can we do that? >> yes, yes. >> let's just tell our viewers about this. >> that's how ali u

kendis. >> the rest of us don't get an extension but the treasury department does with this case.ly, so the president said this was litigated at the november election in 2016. but what sort of political implications do we think could get if they pass this deadline? >> reporter: well democrats believe strongly there is more to learn in the president's tax returns that they believe should be brought to light. and it is certainly the case that other presidents have quite willingly provided their tax return information. and many of the candidates on the democratic side are providing that as well. this president, who bucks many normal conventions of washington and the white house says -- he said a couple of things. he said he would release them when the audit is over and then it evolved into, no, he's not releasing them and their argument is this was litigated during the 2016 campaign and that voters knew they did not have access to this information and yet he was elected president. so where does it go? will it be another part of the 2020 campaign? probably. and congress may, in fact,

i refer to the treasury department. the republican tax plan that passed has a perception problem. americans don't like it. why do you think that is the case? mr. kudlow: i don't know. here is the deal. poll after poll, almost 60% -- i need the umbrella. it is starting to really poor. -- pour. the wall street journal, nbc, the harvard poll, all show tremendous approval of the economy. taxes are a means towards that end. the tax debate, i don't know. i think at the end of the day you have a very prosperous america with low unemployment. blue-collar workers are doing higher wages than we have had in years and they are doing better than the white-collar workers. everybody is sharing in the prosperity. we are growing at 3%. we are thing terrific business investment. individual families, average families after-tax , incomes are up $2300. probably going to continue. i would say americans approve of a prosperous economy, which has been rebuilt by president trump's policies. >> draghi says he is worried about said independence. he has no intention of going up against fed independence. that

to provide those but which the treasury department reports to the president so that's not something that they have direct control over but they can work with these intermediaries including bunch a bank which has lent the trump family three hundred million dollars plus they owe it he owes three hundred million dollars plus to his family to launch a bank over twenty years so that is the best way to do. what happened in the watergate scandal which is to follow the money if you want to figure out intent if you follow the money and what about the fact that it's the father and his children in this in this lawsuit it's. just the business that they're all partners in or they're invested in and yet the president has said time and time again leave my children out right i mean those are his two red lines right his finances and his family but the truth is the two are inextricably linked because it is a family business it's not a publicly traded company and because of that it's not subject to the rules of the securities and exchange commission in the same way that a publicly traded company would

his lawyers also weighed in on a letter to the treasury department, they asked that trump returns not be released. writing this about house democrats. the president is their political opponent, they want to use the information to damage him politically. they add the irs should reframe from divulging the request until it receives a formal legal opinion from the justice department's office of legal counsel. meanwhile the president's former personal attorney returned to the spotlight as well today with a last ditch effort to stay out of jail. michael cohen suggests to congress that he has dirt on the president and he'll give it to he regains access to files that democrats but he wants their help keeping him out of prison. cohen's legal team says he's regained access to files the fbi the fbi seized last year. 14 million other documents. today trump dismissed cohen saying he's not worried about any new potential revelations. >> he's old news. >> he lied numerous times during his last testimonies. they had it for many months. >> cohen is scheduled to head to prison on may 6th. he pleaded gu

the treasury department says it will review the request and if provided, make sure there's privacy as they would for any other taxpayer. president trump, when asked about it, seemed to brush off the request saying he was surprised they didn't ask for ten years of back tax returns, which is typical. >> tracie potts for us, thank you. >>> meanwhile, joe biden is breaking his silence and addressing the latest accusat n accusations against him. the former vice president released a video pledging to be more mindful of people's personal space. this after three more women came forward telling "the washington post" of encounters with him that made them uncomfortable. amidst these damning new developments, the question now is is biden's video enough to get him off the hook? our andrea mitchell investigates. >> reporter: his would-be campaign on the line, joe biden tweeting this video. >> today i want to talk about gestures of support and encouragement that i've made to women and some men, and i made them uncomfortable. >> reporter: at home, deliberately informal, responding after four women sa

they want justice to start writing legal opinions to the treasury department.t's all a way to delay the inevitable. >> will ways and means get what they want? >> i think they will. >> wow. >> but i also think prosecutors already have a lot of his tax returns, they're investigating the business. if there's tax fraud, they're going to find out and that's where he has trouble on the criminal side. >> his lawyers, david, are also arguing that this would set a dangerous precedent. isn't the real dangerous precedent a candidate and a president not providing their returns like we have seen every president from every president since nixon? >> that is absolutely right. and we should probably have a stat statute enacted that president's returns are made public. donald also files in new york state which strictly follows the federal government, except for retirement income. so state prosecutors in new york are looking at donald trump. he is not going to be able to escape this. if he gets to the supreme court, chief justice john roberts is not mitch mcconnell. he is not goi

returns, deadline of last night, the treasury department came back and said they need more time. they said they need to discuss with the justice department about what they consider to be a rather extraordinary request for the president's tax returns. richard neil, chairman of the ways and means committee is citing a provision in the tax code that said the treasury department shall furnish these tax returns to capitol hill. but nevertheless the democrats are weighing their next steps. it could take some time to sort out. but no one is expecting the trump administration to turn around and hand these tax returns over. they're fighting this as they are so many other requests. >> manu, thank you very much. >>> federal prosecutor for the southern district of new york, good to have you. thank you for coming in. simply put but is it right to say you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube? the white house let mcgahn and a host of other folks sit down with mueller for 30 hours, didn't cite executive privilege then. can they now? >> no. the ship has sailed. >> no legal question about that

. >> we had no power over what the treasury department actually did.ad the power to embarrass them, i guess. >> there's one clear message from the president, and that is no matter how much money we pump into the financial institutions, until we change the rules that brought us to this crisis, we are not safe. >> coming up -- >> i think she started to see that she's really going to be a lightning rod. tivates decisions. let's get started. when making a big impression matters, use paper. well, how does that sound? we're in! paper and packaging. how life unfolds. you wouldn't accept from any one else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances. most pills only block one. flonase. ♪ mmm, exactly!ug liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. nice! but uh, what's up with your partner? oh! we just spend all day telling everyone how we customize car insurance because no two people are alike

and jon, the president's lawyer a lawyer for the president sending a letter to the treasury departmentalling the democrats move a gross abuse of power? >> reporter: it's a three page letter, arguments from the legal treasury department and the irs not to turn over the returns. the president's personal lawyer writing, quote, it is a transparent effort by one political party to harass the official from the other party because they dislike his politics and speech. and in a sign they are digging in for a fight on this, the lawyer also asks the treasury before, before doing anything, ask the justice department review and offer an opinion on this. make no mistake, they digging i battle that will almost certainly go to the supreme court. david? >> jon karl on a friday night. thank you. >>> president trump with a new message for would-be migrants and asylum seekers tonight after a full retreat on his threat to esent visiting calexico, california, to see a section of replacement for the border fence that separates the u.s. from mexico. saying our country is full. turn around. that's the way it

and my guess is, treasury department lawyers guided their comments.hin has made what i recall in the piece artful statements about this. >> yes, and as we both know, there is a counsel at the treasury department who is a trump appointee but there's a bunch of lawyers working under that counsel in that offers who have been there in some cases for decades who know all of these things and so that's the kinds of information that they would rush up to the treasury secretary as early in this process as possible i would think. and so it could very well be likely especially when you look at exactly the words mnuchin has been using that he's known about this law for at least a couple of weeks. >> yes, and part of the problem i suspect that secretary mnuchin has is, he could have just laid this all off on charles red dig, the former tax lawyer for rich people who got caught cheating who now runs the irs because there's a delegation order as you had larry somers standpointing out the other night that it's the irs commissioner who is responsible here mnuchin may

treasury department says it issued nearly 72 million refunds down from the year before. the reach fund fund less than l. and i have a few that there must never be a tax refund. the idea is that you must never give the government more money than you've got. but it seems that people are not happy about not getting refunds or reach funds of the same size they are used to. >> i agree with you, all the refund really is how much you overpaid the irs last year in your monthly paycheck. so i agree with you there. but if you look at the information basically the refund sizes are tracking almost identically within $10 or so -- >> about $20. >> the same percentage of returns are getting refunds as in the past. and in the data filing numbers are when the same as they were last year. exactly what we expected. here is my thought. let's let the tax filing season play out, let's take a look at that. but we really forced the tax cut into everyone's paychecks last year starting february. because most families live pay check to paycheck. >> strange though, right, that people who might be g

treasury department missing that deadline to turn over donald trump's taxes, settles the stage for ae constitutional battle l that could go all the way to the supreme court. look out steve mnuchin, he may have to take the hit for the president. what's he hiding, the president, and can democrats prove they have legitimate reasons? they already have one. they've got the law. let's get the tax returns. you're watching "hardball." waty ♪ help! not just anybody ♪ help! you know i need someone tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management. to help you grow and protect your wealth. i felt i couldn't be at my best wifor my family. c, in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all common types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor