that's a very amateur mistake that trey gowdy is making, congressman gowdy is making.st of all, congressional hearing is not like a courtroom. in a courtroom, you have the option of not taking the stand. that's not true when subpoenaed by chairman of a committee. you actually have to appear. secondly, the general -- when somebody appears and says i am innocent of the charges, i conducted myself honorably, that in no way waives your fifth amendment. what waives the fifth amendment is if you begin to selectively answer questions and not others. general protestations are in no way a waiver of the fifth amendment. congressman gowdy's statement she had waived it i think with all due respect to him is a little amateur hourish. but secondly, lawrence, you hit on this at the beginning of the show, this is what the investigation has now come to. it kind of makes the case we have been trying to make on this, this is much ado about nothing. for the committee to pursue the question about whether or not she waived her right, waived her fifth amendment right would be a monumentally

a number of council member, through south carolina's trey gowdy, they actually believe it was. >> sheust testified. she just waived her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subjected to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to the fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. [applause] >> sean: unfortunately moments later lerner repeatedly refused to answer any questions regarding the tax agency's targeting of conservatives, and ordered to leave the room by congressman issa. however others didn't get off so easily. because you were not able to watch the hearing in its entirety, as usual, we did it for you. we have all of the highlights. take a look. >> you sure you didn't talk to anyone at the white house about this issue, mr. shulman? >> about singling out conservative groups for special scrutiny? >> well, that's what we're talking about, isn't it? >> absolutely sure i did not talk to -- >> 118 visits, it didn't come up with a casual co

we're going to find out what happened. >> congressman trey gowdy now joins us. in addition to the house oversight commtee, he also sits on the judiciary committee and chairs the subcommittee on immigration and border security as well. quite a remarkable day, ngressman. it is good of you to be here. the criticisms that arose today were primarily, it seemed, fosed on secretary clinton, including yours. explain t if you wil >> well, w what became clear toy is that ambassador stevens was in beeghazi in part because of hillary clinn. she wanted to go to libya. she wanted a legacy. he wanted to go to benghazi, a see if that facility was secure. we also learned today that she and e alone can approve the opening or the remaining open of facilities that don't meet specifications and the one in benghazi did not meet specifications and we learned today and that e-mail from beth jones which copied her senior counselor that they knew this waa terror-related atta on september 12t the day after. they knew it had nothing to do with a video. so hillary clinton's fingerprints are

congressman trey gowdy joins us. she takes an oath, makes a statement, and asserts her fifth.you say it's a waiver, that she can't do it? >> i think you have a great argument under brown versus u.s. that it is a waiver. if you can do it the way she wants t to do it, every defendat would say, i didn't rob the bank and i'm not going to answer the prosecutor's questions. that's not the best way to get that's not t want toway to get do. we'd all like to get out our version without answering questions, and i don't think it's fair. that's why i raised it with chairman issa. >> greta: it occurred to me this is probably one of the dumbest things she could have done, and her lawyer, who i know, probably advised -- think about it. is it all she had to do was go in there, take the fifth, leave the building, and she could have said the same thing on the steps of the united states capitol, everyone in the media would have followed it, been replaying it, and she wouldn't be in this position where you guys are thinking about going to court to compel her to testify as a waiver. >> that or hav

departure was followed by remarks from congressman issa, who announced that learna was, earth to trey gowdy constitutional rights. perhaps wary of being seen as attempting to score points for political gain, issa sounded a for bipar sanship. >> i would ask all of us to avoid talking about who is liked by president bush, who is liked by president obama, who is liked by republicans or democrats. let's all be be republicrats and demicans? >> or -- >> darrell issa i thought was incredibly shrewd in choosing to be above the partisan fighting on this one, even though up until this point, it's as if perhaps darrell issa has had a somewhat partisan agenda in pursuing all of this. >> it's not just shrewd but important. the mess that happened there, and to be fair, i don't think we don't still know the entire totality. so far we're not seeing this go high up the chain, but we don't know what happened inside the irs or who exactly knew or why they did what they did. was it a mistaken strategy to deal with a flood of applicants or a targeted operation, or did it even go a bit higher than that. on somet

well, at the time trey gowdy a former federal prosecutor said you can't do that ms. lerner, it's not how it works. either you clam up entirely or you start talking and you started talking. well, now the committee chairman darrell issa says trey gowdy was right and that lois lerner waived her right not to testify. coming up in moments, jay seq. could you low will join us now -- sekulow will join us now. he had clients coming to him tell them they felt they were being targeted by the irs. the irs denied it he knew it was true. he kept pushing for months. now he has been vindicated. we will ask him well weather now in his legal opinion she can be dragged back and forced to testify and answer the questions she chose to stay silent on. wait until you hear what allen different wits says on it. -- dish wits says on it are demanding answers in the widening controversy over the targeting of journalists. house judiciary committee chairman bob good lap wanting to know why justice deliberately avoided telling the associated press. required to do. there is an exception to that re

listen to how his fellow south caroli carolinan congressman trey gowdy fails to mention he must who will be named. >> home state could have a new congressman by tonight. how enthusiastically would you welcome sanford? >> tim scott will be impossible to replace. he's one of the finest human beings i have ever met. he will be very tough to replace. >> it's not an enthusiastic welcome. >> listen, tim is impossible to replace. i would not want to have to come on the heels of tim scott. >> can we not even speak his name? >> you could. i'm focused on benghazi. >> joining us now is joy reid, managing editor of the grio.com and dana milbank, political columnist for the "washington post." good afternoon to both of you. dana, even if sanford wins, he becomes the gop's voldimort, me who must not be named. >> i'm willing to name him over and over again. sanford, sanford, sanford. >> his fellow republicans cannot name him. >> exactly. that's because people like me, us in the the press, will get out the pom poms and cheer this on. it adds excitement and humor to capitol hill. unfortunately, that humor

gregg: that is congressman trey gowdy weighing his options after lois lerner, the woman in charge of the irs unit that targeted conservative groups refused to testify. gowdy and others belief she effectively waived her fifth amendment right to silence by reading a statement giving her side of the story. it was brief. but as gowdy noted, they can't force her to talk. that's why he would like to see a special prosecutor haul her before a grand jury. a.b. stoddard is associate editor and columnist for "the hill." good to see you. generally waiver of fifth amendment applies to trials only. this isn't a trial and normally you can invoke your fifth at any point in time. the lawyers will have to iron that out but look, what happened yesterday seemed to really anger people on both sides of the aisle, republicans and democrats. so has this just inflamed or escalated the vitriol and recriminations over the irs scandal? >> yes, i think this week it's really taken a turn. we learned, a, that the story from the white house continues to change and that's unsettling. lois lerner decided she couldn't

. >> reporter: over the objection of republican trey gowdy. >> she just testified, she just waived her fifth amendment right to privilege wroufplt don't get to tell your side of the story and not be subjected to cross-examination. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> reporter: after some reflection, the chairman, tkaoeurl issa, agreed and said that he would call learner back soon to testify to try to get her to answer some of those questions. scott? >> pelley: nancy, thank you. in florida this morning a man with ties to one of the boston bombing suspects was shot to death as he was being questioned by investigators. here's justice correspondent bob orr. >> reporter: the shooting happened inside this orlando apartment complex as an f.b.i. agent and massachusetts state police detectives were questioning ibrahim todashev about his friendship with accused boston bomber tamerlan tsarnaev. the two chechen immigrants once trained together at a boston area gym. but evidence also suggests a criminal connection, involvement in a grisly triple murder that occurred in september, 20

south carolina republican trey gowdy has been outspoken. he will join us live in a moment.lus there is this. >> oh, my god. oh ... martha: that was a train carrying chemicals. it derailed and explode. the growing northeast federal investigation into that. bill: a 10-year-old girl will die unless she gets a lung transplants. but the rules say she cannot have one. her mother is here live with letter fight to change that system. >> the on thing staying between my daughter dying and living is because she is 10 and not 12. er. try fixodent. it helps create a food seal defense for a clean mouth and kills bacteria for fresh breath. ♪ fixodent, and forget it. >> am i asking too much that the top prosecutor in the country not mislead congress? if you take what he said and then contrast that with what he did, and what the department did, he's either so absent from the job that he has no idea what is going on, or there would be a more nefarious explanation which we will get to the bottom of. martha: i want to move onto the other topic that we wanted to talk to you about today. that is

coming up, author andrew mccarthy and house oversight committee member trey gowdy. you can ide was a princess on the fox business network each day on markets ow. niel: stocks are up because jobs are. the day after we were told jobs were down. the unemployment rate is looking good nevermind what all those jobs. the comedian famous for picking up the oddities in life. this and that, things are getting better,. >> bars and restaurants, retail businesses and more than enough to compensate. the 11,000 positions emanated from government. how-to reports can be so diametrically opposed stocks focusing on the surprising 7.5% unemployment rate. what will the folks who do the hiring, not defined, what will they do to bring the jobs back? that is what their own actions say that they are not doing, that makes me think everyone is believing. the recovery is back on course. those who do not see this recovery, they want to, they have been waiting and hoping. they have been praying. but it still is not happening. with me now is david mcarthur and david, do to you first. you are seei

coming up, author andrew mccarthy and house oversight committee member trey gowdy.ing market is roaring back what a great tax are thehe trading week. buyers getting the shaft? what is going on with celebrities? thumbing their nose at the law? >> our top story

reporter: that do not fit well with congressman trey gowdy of south carolina. also critical in this hearing, they are hearing from treasury secretary neil wollen him as saying that the irs is not involved in this matter. lawmakers are asking what he thought about the and what he may have done or said about this and about what he learned in the activity of the irs. jenna: thank you, mike. >> thank you. jon: justin, new information in the justice department investigation into one of our colleagues. a mean you know well. lots of new details showing that it might have gone deeper than originally thought. shanwashington with that. reporter: we knew that the government obtained a search warrant to access e-mail of kings -- james rosen heard that we we we have no idea tracking it farther. in a filing made by the u.s. attorney's office dated october 13, 21, government detailed information including scores of phone numbers and e-mail exchanges that matter to many fox news hard lines and cell phones. and the diversion of the document we cannot see the final four numbers

coming up, author andrew mccarthy and house oversight committee member trey gowdy.de was a princess on the fox business network each day on markets ow. niel: stocks are up because jobs are. the day after we were told jobs were down. the unemployment rate is looking good nevermind what all those jobs. the comedian famous for picking up the oddities in life. this and that, things are getting better,

coming up, author andrew mccarthy and house oversight committee member trey gowdy. you can e is that confetti. >> hello everybody by m jerry lewis. the housing market is roaring back what a great tax are thehe trading week. buyers getting the shaft? what is going on with celebrities? thumbing their nose at the law? >> our top story tonight, if you own a home or have the four erwin k., listen up because there is great news. stocks setting new records today crossing 15,000 for the first time in history. >> for that is good news. you say it may be overvalued? >> stocks are startg to get overvalued it doesn't mean they will start declining right now but the price earnings ratios are on the high side. well i had predicted 15,000 we in gun there and it could go the 155, i am srting to get a bit skittish. as soon as the s&p 500 gets to the p/e of about 20 that is the time to pull the plug. i am more bullish on housing. gerri: when it comes to the stock market as long as the fed continues buying $85 billion of mortgages from want and they have said they might even increase

trey gowdy says there are at least two more whistle blowers and i have a list of people, by the way, quickly, these are the people that need to be brought up to capitol hill. we've got pictures of them. clinton for obvious reasons. susan rice for obvious reasons.c victoria nuland, the one who changing the talking point who says my building's leadership is not satisfied and congress will use this al-qaeda information against us.hi also on the right, sheryl mills is a fierce defender of the clintons since 92. she punished hicks and demoted him and wanted to muzzle him. beth jones was the one who knew it was al-qaeda and omitted that from the talking points as well. general petraeus, who was frustrated and voiced as much in an e-mail said why are you editing my talking points? we gave you the right information. carney, who lied from the inset and said these talk points were from the intelligence community and ben rhodes, the one who responded to victoria nuland's concerns said they were valid and said they would be resolved. the next day, new messages went right to susan rice. those are

. >> that statement made south carolina republican trey gowdy furious. >> she waived her right to the fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand her and answer our questions. >> in cincinnati, fox 19 reports six employees rebound identified as targeting conservative groups, all with different managers and territory managers above them, suggesting this was not restricted to a small unsupervised group. the irs conducted its own investigation a year ago, which found a substantial bias against conservative groups, but a house oversight aide says it appears that revelation did not lead to any irs employees being disciplined. today deputy treasury secretary neil wolin testified this was an irs problem. >> there's no indication that the treasury involved in the inexcusable behavior at the irs. treasury only learned of the facts that the ig was conducting a review after the unacceptable conduct had already ended. >> the committee's top democrat went after the former irs commissioner douglas shulman for saying in march 2012 there was absolutely no targeting t

and that's one that trey gowdy held up in the meeting. >> greta: can't you xerox?e department won't allow it. >> greta: the state department won't allow you to xerox a document that's unclassified they're showing you? >> exactly. >> greta: that's nuts. >> that's what the white house press corps has to ask the administration, because the president will look you in the eye, look you in the camera, and say as we get new information, we'll reveal it. we're open and transparent. then they hand-select 100 that don't make them look good. 100 out of 25,000. >> greta: what happens when you ask specifically about this september 12th email? >> they won't release it. >> greta: do they say no? >> they say no. >> greta: don't you follow up and say why not? >> we've been having this since the very beginning. i asked just a couple weeks after the attack to start providing documents. we've been so patient. only now that they're being more embarrassed, the white house -- >> greta: do we get these. >> yeah. suddenly the white house will release those. if you're going to release those

republican congressman trey gowdy himself a former prosecutor jumped on it as you just saw. just republicans today firing shots at the irs. the committee's top democrat went after former irs commissioner douglas shulman for saying back in march of 2012 that there was absolutely no targeting taking place. and then not correcting the record. >> at the time i learned about this list, i felt i was taking the appropriate actions and that my course was the proper one and i still feel that way today. >> i'm sorry, that's simply not good enough. you personally knew there was a target list. >> the committee wants to know how high knowledge of the targeting went and who ordered it. shulman acknowledged to the committee that he visited the white house 118 times during his tenure as commissioner. >> you are very aware of the fact that you are under oath today. >> very aware of that. >> and your testimony, to be very clear, in response to this mr. jordan's question, is that you have never had any conversation with respect to this subject, the subject of this hearing, with anybody at the

well, lerner went under fire, of course, for that decision and was called out by representative trey gowdy of south carolina for refusing to answer any questions, which she did today. >> mr. cummings just said we should run this like a courtroom. i agree with him. she just testified. she just waived her fifth amendment right to privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story and not be suggested to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> wow. we should note the committee's chairman darrell issa wants to recall lerner. ms. lerner refused to answer any questions from lawmakers which, of course, only fuels speculation there's more to the story than has been told. this weekend "the new york times" reported that at the core of this scandal is a truly dysfunctional office. as the "time"s described it, quote, an understaffed cincinnati outpost that was alienated from the broader irs culture and given little direction. overseen by a revolving cast

notified the committee in advance that she would take the fifth, but south carolina republican trey gowdy visibly agitated. >> you don't get to tell your side of the story and then not be subjected to cross examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement and she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> brown: the chair of the oversight committee, california republican darrell issa, asked lerner to reconsider. >> is it possible that we could narrow scope of questions and that there are some areas that you would be able to answer any questions on here today? >> i will not answer any questions or testify today. >> ms. lerner, would you be willing to answer questions specifically related to statements made under oath to this committee? >> i decline to answer that question for the reasons i've already given. >> brown: even before lerner spoke, committee democrat stephen lynch of massachusetts warned against refusing to testify. >> we know where that will lead. it will lead to a special prosecutor. it will lead

he tried to dismiss her from the hearing, but hold on just a minute, fellow republican trey gowdy, wasot done with her. >> you don't get to tell your side of the story and then not be subjected to cross examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to 5th amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. >> congressman gowdy did not get his way. chairman issa dismissed lerner again and this time she booked it out of the hearing. if only the irs could move that fast when you're waiting on your refund. issa is reserving the right to call her again as a witness. >>> this city, moore, oklahoma, already held the record for the highest wind speed recorded near the surface of the earth, so why didn't so many homes and schools have safe rooms when history repeated itself monday? i'll ask the mayor of moore, oklahoma, coming up next. ♪ ♪ fly me to the moon ♪ let me play among the stars ♪ and let me see what spring is like ♪ ♪ on jupiter and mars ♪ in other words [ male announcer ] the classic is back. ♪ i love [ male announce

martha: republican congressman trey gowdy was the first person to raise the red flag yesterday over lois lerner's testimony. watch this. >> mr. issa, mr. cummings said we should run this like a courtroom. and i agree with him. she just testified. she just waived her right to amendment privilege. you don't get to tell your side of the story then have the right to the fifth amendment privilege. she waived her right to privilege and she ought to answer our questions. march, there was applause and she left the room shortly after that. he will explain why she needs to come back to capitol hill. bill: bullet points go back three years. early 2010. when the irs began screening conservative groups that apply for tax exempt status. including questions about what books they were reading and in some cases what they were quote trained for. some of these groups waited 3 years to have their tax exempt applications processed while two election cycles came and went. >> the british prime minister david cameron vowing to never give in to terror after a brutal attack by two islamic militants hacking a brit

. >> it wasn't for trey gowdy and others, we would be led to believe that security decisions were made on the grounds by those security professionals and that was never true. we are going to hear testimony from mark thompson about that today. we have military assets, people that were ready to go into battle. but there'll own lives at risk. we believe after-the-fact the country was led to believe that it was some kind of mob. that was never true either. there are four things that the administration would continue to perpetuate. we have a duty and obligation to get to the truth. jon: that is jason caithness speaking with bill hemmer. he was going to be testifying today and he is going to say that this is a terrorist attack from the get-go that people believed it was and we will see what else comes out in front of this congressional committee today. jenna: sends a terror attack that we now know of, there has been a few different things that have happened. catch you up what happened the night of the attack and since then. the timeline of the events. reporter: to understand how we have gott