he says trump tower is 68 stories high. it's only 58 stories high.on i asked hum how much he was worth he told me $3 billion and what did he do? he told another reporter he was worth $5 billion. he just makes this stuff up and as judge engoron pointed out in his decision finding the donald is in fact a persistent fraudster so this trial is primarily about damages, in the real world you can't just say when you're seeking loans and insurance and dealing with tax authorities things that are completely unrelated to reality. >> and david, i read you had a really great example of going to the racetrack, and i want you to use that now to talk about discouragement because i want cue viewers to understand, the defense is claiming for donald trump that no one was hurt. it's a victimless crime and the banks made all of this money off of it and how can you actually say that there's any type of damages in this case, but explain very quickly that the racetrack example that you gave, it hits at the core of the discouragement which is what the new york attorney gene

cnn's kristen holmes outside trump tower. ten, explain to us this choice because, again, trump does not have to go this morning. he has chosen to. why? >> reporter: that's right, john. i've talked to a number of his allies and advisers who say that trump has become increasingly agitate bd this particular trial, particularly the valuation of his properties made by the judge who talk about how trump has sold himself as a successful and rich businessman. it's not just his business, it's also his brand and it's not just his social brand, it is his political brand. running in 2016 a big part of his argument to voters is i am successful. look at all of my riches. i can make you rich. i can do all the things for you that i've done for myself. obviously if he has been inflating that, that is going to conflict directly with the message that he has been sending about the kind of president he would be in the middle of a campaign again for president in 2024. you talk about this being a campaign event, it really is. just moments ago right

kristen holmes is outside trump tower where he's preparing to leave. but let's start with cara scannel who is at the courthouse. this is a civil case, not a criminal case, but it could have serious implications for trump's business empire. >> that's right, phil. it already is having implications for trump's business empire. but when court gets underway today about 10:00 a.m., trump will be squaring off across from the judge who is overseeing this case. and will ultimately decide the verdict in this case. it's not a jury trial. this judge has already dealt trump and his business a blow saying trump did engage in fraud for ten years, persistent fraud, by inflating the value of some of his properties, mar-a-lago, his apartment at trump tower, and in this case what the attorney general's office ames to prove at this trial, they inflated the rates to get better rates on insurance and interest rates on loans. the attorney general's office is seeking to get damages if this case. that's really a big part of what is at stake here, as well as individual accountab

but trump could be forced to give up his famous new york properties like trump tower. s going to start us off tonight from outside the courthouse in manhattan. good evening, robert. >> reporter: good evening, norah. former president trump did not need to show up here today, but he decided to anyway because sources tell me for him, this was deeply personal, and he wanted to defend the company and reputation he built over decades, so intertwined with his life and with his political career. former president donald trump sat stone-faced in court this morning. the fate of his new york properties, including trump tower, and his family business at stake. new york attorney general letitia james, who brought the $250 million fraud lawsuit against trump and his adult children, sat just feet away from the former president and his son, eric. >> no matter how powerful you are, no matter how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. >> reporter: trump used the occasion to attack james and the judge. >> we have a racist attorney general who is a horror show, who ran

no jail time, but donald trump could be forced to give up his famous new york property is like trump towergoing to start us off tonight from outside the courthouse in manhattan. good evening, robert. >> reporter: good evening, norah, former president trump did not need to show up here today, but he decided to anyway, because sources tell me for him this was deeply personal and he wanted to defend the company and reputation he built over decades. so intertwined with his life and his political career. former president donald trump sat stone-faced in court this morning come the fate of his new york, new york, properties including trump tower and his family business at stake. letitia james who brought the $250 million fraud lawsuit against trump and his adult children sat just feet away from the former president and his son eric. >> no matter how powerful you are, no matter how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. >> trump use the occasion to attack james and the judge. >> we have a racist attorney general who is a horror show who ran on the basis that she was going to g

breaking news former president donald trump expected to leave trump tower in mid town, manhattan minutes from now and in the courthouse in lower manhattan. the first day of a civil trial relating to claims of fraudulent business practices within the trump organization. so more coming up on that as it happens here. meanwhile, the crisis is unrelenting. illegal border crossings hitting an all-time high under president biden and repercussions are being felt everywhere coast to coast and especially in this town as we say good morning. i'm bill hemmer. dana has the day off today. gillian turner is here. >> gillian: i got in 9:30 last night. great to see every store open. a guy was singing frank sinatra on the megaphone. people eating ice cream. >> bill: it wasn't raining, too. >> gillian: the numbers are stunning at the border. more than 260,000 illegal crossings in september alone. more than 2.2 million have crossed this fiscal year, nearly four times the population of wyoming. >> bill: it's putting a strain on cities everywhere. the open borders allowing cartels to smuggle in more fentanyl.

he wouldn't say, i'm goingof trump tower. wer, he wouldn't say, i'm goingof trump tower. no,ce in tower, he wouldn't say, i'm goingof trump tower. no, he'd front of trump tower. no, he'd if man and he had the if he was a man and he had the power would guns and power, he would get guns and kill but come kill people. but come on. >> i mean, louis, >> no, i mean, louis, that's ridiculous trump trump ridiculous. trump trump tower has walls . it's got walls. has got walls. it's got walls. it's got doors lock . so it's got doors that lock. so they obviously obviously take that to their security they obviously obviously take thewell to their security they obviously obviously take thewell as to their security they obviously obviously take thewell as theto their security they obviously obviously take thewell as the and eir security they obviously obviously take thewell as the and thesecurity they obviously obviously take thewell as the and the us|rity they obviously obviously take thewell as the and the us isy as well as the and the us

he arrived at trump tower last night after campaigning in iowa ahead of the january caucuses. they're seeking $250 million in the case against trump, his eldest sons and their companies. they're accused of significantly inflating the value of their properties to banks and insurers for years. we're live outside the courthouse. there will certainly be optics reasons but from a substantive perspective, what do we expect today? >> well, phil, good morning. the former president is going to attend this trial today. he's going to square off against the judge who has already dealt a major blow to him and his business and for trump the stakes couldn't be higher. >> donald trump falsely inflated his net worth by billions of dollars to unjustly enrich himself and to cheat the system thereby cheating all of us. >> reporter: a monumental moment for former president donald trump, his family and the company that bears his name. the new york attorney general's civil fraud lawsuit alleging trump, his adult sons and his business engaged in a decade long fraud begins in a manhattan courtroom toda

trump said his penthouse in trump tower was worth $327 million. it's actual value, more than $200 million less. the judge also said trump boosted the values of seven golf clubs by 15% to 30% because of what he called a "brand premium" on the name "trump." the former president denying it all. he didn't have to come to court today, but he showed up again, coming out to talk to reporters several times. mr. president, why did you decide to come? you didn't have to. >> i don't have to. because this trial is a rigged trial. >> reporter: trump says he's copping back for more tomorrow, david, and he'll have to return sometime later when he's called to testify as a witness. his attorneys never even tried to get the case before a jury, so, the outcome is going to be up to the same judge trump

but it all begs the question, what is trump tower without trump?l, the former president is, indeed, at new york city's courthouse, facing the very real prospect that he could be barred from doing business in the very city where he built that business, hosting a tv show. trump tower, 40 wall street, trump park avenue and his west chester golf club. as we see him, he just walked back into the courtroom. i want to bring in pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist david k. johnson, he has been reporting on trump's financial situation literally for decades and is author of the book, "the big cheat," how donald trump fleeced america and enriched himself and his family. also with us, coanchor of pbs news hour, and msnbc political contributor, geoff bennett. david, let me start with you. the judge had given the trump organization as you put it cleverly, the corporate death penalty. i don't know how much you've had time to watch what donald trump has been doing this morning, but he's spoken as vividly as i've heard him, as angrily as i have seen him,

a live look at trump tower this morning. a $50 million civil suit brought by the new york attorney general, where prosecutors allege that trump, his businesses and some of his children, the value has been wildly exaggerated for years. last week a judge ruled that trump and his associates committed real estate fraud. a civil trial could determine whether mr. trump loses control over some of his famous properties. >> what are the implications of this civil fraud trial for mr. trump? >> well, if he loses, and the reason why he's apparently coming tomorrow is he doesn't want to lose, if he has to pay $250 million, if he and his sons can no longer conduct business in new york, that's a fatal blow. >> reporter: now, this is new video of trump arriving at trump tower last night ahead of the trial. mr. trump has denied all wrongdoing and has called the judge in the case deranged. trump faces four criminal trials, including two at the federal level, one in georgia and another in new york state. this civil case will be heard as a bench

this is a witch hunt, a continuation of the witch hunt the day i came down the escalator in trump tower. it is a shame for our country. you borrow money, you pay it back, the bank loves us, they said he didn't do anything wrong. we love the money. these are big banks represented by the biggest law firms, the most prestigious, the best law firms in the country. you borrow money, you pay it back, and you get sued by a political animal. that's where we are. that's the way it goes. that's why new york state is failing and that's why companies are leaving by the thousands. i will see you later. thank you. [shouted questions] >> a lot of people have been -- do what is best for the country and republican party. we have some great, great people. a lot of people have asked me about it. we are leading. you know me too much. we're leading by like 50 points for president. my focus is totally on that. if i can help them during the process, i would do it. but we have some great people in the republican party. they will do a great job as speaker. [inaudible question] >> she is a wonderful woman. i'll

he could be going back to the trump tower, his home in midtown. we don't know. oy does know. he has been following from the beginning. do we know where donald trump is going and where he will spend his night? >> we're working to confirm that. he spent last night in trump tower, one of the properties that he's accused of fraudulently overvaluing. donald trump made three separate statements. one after the morning session, another a short time after, before the afternoon session and just heard him speak again. he appeared more positive in regards to the judge in this case. trump has been very critical of him throughout the entire day referring to him as deranged and very partisan. the judge is a democrat. however, president trump appeared optimistic as at the end of today's proceedings, the judge appeared to sort of wonder out loud in the statute of limitations had run out on some of these transactions. president trump said it covered about 80% of the case. he appears to be very interested in what will come tomorrow. that is something that the state said that they w

this is trump tower, former president trump slept here last night and will come down to the courthousend his name. state has a list of 27 witnesses they will call, former president trump is one of them, as well as his children. this trial is expected to last through most of december and today is day one. back to you. >> steve: it is day one and no jury, we understand, plus there are protesters already, right? >> there are a handful of protesters behind me at the courthouse, some holding signs saying no one is against the law. they were definitely in line with more than what the judge determined, that would be irrelevant, any lending company or insurance company can bring in their own appraisers. when they put valuations out, that is stipulated in the contract. this goes to the heart of the larger argument that we are having in the country. do we have justice in america that has been weaponized and politicized. you had an attorney general, her whole platform. one family, trump family, one organization, the trump organization. the judge wants to take away control of this company, fine th

. >> right now, we're standing by to see donald trump leave trump tower as we did yesterday, day one his $250 million civil fraud trial. a lot of drama, because mostly of donald trump. he went on camera, and online, unleashing a new round of nasty, albeit predictable attacks. in court, trump appeared agitated and angry at times as he listened to testimony from his former accountant. so what will day two bring as that accountant soon retakes the stand? >> cnn's brynn gingras outside the court with more. >> reporter: we're waiting for the president to leave trump tower. come here to the courthouse, expected to be at the start of 10:00 a.m. he left yesterday with a little pep in his step. that's because of the judge's testimony saying that testimony at the end of the day could have been a complete waste of time. he was referring to the state's attorney questioning his former client that are outside the statue of limitations for the case. that, of course, made the president pretty happy. he said to the cameras, he thought that was outstanding. that's what we've seen from the former presi

he could even be forced to give up the trump tower. those people expected to testify, trump's own former attorney, michael cohen, who was one of the first to level accusation that trump lies about real estate holdings when he testified before congress in 2019. trump's children will also testify, including ivanka trump. the purpose of his daughter's testimony is a bit unclear. she was not part of the trump company, but she's named as a prosecution or plaintiff witness. that may not be voluntary. we don't expect donald trump to testify today. the hearing is scheduled for 11 weeks. but, laura, he said very much that he wanted to show up on the first day. >> a busy week for the former president. thank you very much. >>> 6:37 right now. new findings indicate that many people in the bay area are steering clear of downtown. the bay area news group and joint venture silicon valley conducted a survey. 83% of respondents say they've never or rarely visited downtown oakland over the past year. 79% said the same of downtown san jose. when it comes

take the trump tower penthouse. the state says the trump organization inflated its value by some $200 million, declaring it was it was 30,000 square feet. but the attorney general's team showed trump's signature on a document certifying the apartment is actually a third that size, 11,000 square feet. and while trump said mar-a-lago was worth up to $600 million, the state contends its assessed value was actually no more than $27 million. and they played video from the deposition of trump's former lawyer and fixer michael cohen, who says he and former chief financial officer allen weisselberg artificially boosted the value of certain properties at trump's direction if, say, he wanted to move up on the forbes list of the wealthiest people. >> mr. trump would call allen and i into the office, and let's say it said he was worth $6 billion. well, he wanted to be higher on the forbes list, and he then said, "i'm actually not worth $6 billion, i'm worth seven. in fact, i think it's actually now worth $8 billion with everythi

donald trump fabricated this brand that he sowed to america. 20 years ago we showed up at trump tower to help, i guess, reinforce that because we didn't know what we know now, which is donald trump is a fraud. >> and, omarosa, so when you were on "the apprentice," the whole -- well, wasn't a drone then, but the helicopter shots coming in, all of it was to project this image of wealth and luxury. here's a clip from actually your first episode. >> welcome to trump tower. i hope your staysen joyable. to start,>> it is a taste of the life you could lead. >> so you're all there, young bushy-tailed, those smiles of awe, caviar. they brought you into his penthouse, a lot of the gold there painted and not real, but you wouldn't know that at the time. you're walking around in awe. did you, omarosa, have any reason to question his wealth at the time? >> well, no, because i had actually read all of trump's books including "the art of the deal." we totally bought this illusion that donald trump was this huge billionaire, this real estate mogul, and that we would work for one of his successful com

this is where his business entities have been operated out of, out of trump tower here, and that is wherefinancial penalty leveed against the trump o organization which is what the new york attorney general's office is seeking, the dissolution of the trump properties and the taking businesses out of the trump family name would in itself be a crippling of the business that the trump family has built up. of course michael cohen has been very vocal in his public statements but also his own testimony up on capitol hill in washington, d.c., and then as part of his sit-down meetings with the new york attorney general's office that he was part of a scheme to increase the valuation of the properties, in order to gain more favorable loan agreements. if you take just even the d.c. trump hotel that was purchased just over ten years ago by the trump family, they were able to see -- receive a favorable agreement and were able to purchase the trump hotel property for $175 million and as the new york attorney general in this lawsuit suggests, that allowed them after he left the white house to sell it fo

we know he arrived at trump tower last night. e actually will testify in week? we know trump has a history of suggesting that he might and then not. if he does, what might he say? >> well, if he testifies, it won't be until the end. the attorney general has him on her witness list. that doesn't mean that he would be the first one called. and if he is called by her and it's allowed, he could take the fifth amendment. i think he will because he still has the possibility of a criminal prosecution by the manhattan d.a. of these very acts. it would be wise to take the fifth amendment. yes, in a civil proceeding that could be held against him but it's a judge trial. the judge already read his deposition so the judge knows the facts. he's not going to be prejudiced by the adverse inference of trump not testifying. it could only hurt him for this trial and if the manhattan d.a.'s office decides to prosecute him. >> as you noted this one which is business, livelihood, reputation at stake this matters to trump as any of the criminal cases.

pay the penalty in his fraud trial, which means there's a remote but realistic possibility that trump toweraway, he has to sell mar-a-lago, and he ends up crashing with rudy giuliani. [ laughter ] "i call top bunk." "but, boss, i don't have a bunk bed. "you can sleep under the mattress." "oh, this is great [ laughter ] maybe this will finally straighten out my neck my chiropractor says i have a condition called gargoyle spine! [ laughter ] so the actual trial began today. trump and his lopsided adult sons are on the witness list but the judge in the case has already effectively ruled that the facts are not in dispute he wrote in his ruling that trump's inflated claims about his business assets constitute obvious fraud. >> the judge effectively decided he didn't need a trial to determine the trumps were liable the judge wrote in his ruling, quote, "this is a fantasy world, not the real world," and admonished the former president for his overvaluing his holdings by as much as $2.2 billion in one example, trump overestimated the size of his manhattan apartment, which he spent years living in,

meanwhile, over to kristen holtz outside of trump tower. we know that trump spoke at length before going to the and now, we feel that the statements that he said before is indicative of how he could be using this court fight for his 2024 campaign. >> yes, i was told by the advisers that he wanted to have a show of force and this was intended for optics. so he knew and not only waited for the cameras to roll they were following close the judge's ruling, and whether or not the hallway would have a camera al allow. donald trump is the master of optics, and he wants to play it out in the court of public opinion, and i have been and run a campaign in 2024 which is obviously, by itself, rigorous. they said they did not have an answer. they were talking with ways to do this, but with this, they have found one way to do so which is to turn the trials into somewhat of and i spoke to one adviser who almost and then they put out and so, clearly, this is how they are ma and so maybe this is going to help him when he claims election interference, but whe

take for example his triplex in trump tower. thejudge take for example his triplex in trump tower.es its actual square footage can only be considered a fraudulent act. so the judges completely siding with the attorney general on this case. others have pointed out that donald trump benefited from these when he was paying less in tax. but here he is saying that this is business as normal in new york. what we will be hearing from experts have to say about that. certainly the judge does not agree that that's how business is done in new york.— is done in new york. interesting. thank you _ is done in new york. interesting. thank you very — is done in new york. interesting. thank you very much _ is done in new york. interesting. thank you very much for - is done in new york. interesting. thank you very much for that. i is done in new york. interesting. - thank you very much for that. before we go to break show i show you pictures from us congress from the house of representatives. you will see that republicans are debating among themselves at the moment the motion to vacate the speakers c

a trump tower. the campaign has had success capitalizing on these legal troubles. what more can you tell us about their strategy? >> reporter: we've seen them time and time again conflate the legal and political. he is running on these legal issues saying this is all election interference, that the democrats are out to get him, that the only reason he is being charged and indicted four times because democrats don't want him running against joe biden. but what we saw today was a little different. they essentially turned the trial into a campaign event. after he left trump tower, they lashed out on latitia james, they went up to the mics attacking her. and really knowing where all the cameras were. donald trump if you look at that statement that he gave when he entered the courthouse, he didn't just start speaking, he waited for the cameras to be on him, he waited for essentially any newscast to realize he was there and getting his statement out. this is a man who knows optics and knows visuals. and he gave us a bit of insight into what the next several months is lik

he's going to be staying in trump tower. in, this is of course a media play for his campaign. as much as donald trump is angered and frustrated by the series of charges and legal battles that he's facing, his team also recognizes the political benefits of it. i think that's why you're seeing the campaign really play this up a lot. and focus on it. even though, of course, again, typically, when you have a president who has to appear in court for a series of trials and indictments, they would shy away from that. his team is not. they're running for it. >> yeah. this is a classic situation with donald trump. and we've -- the laws of gravity don't seem to apply, at least not inside the republican party. whether the strategy turns out to be the right one, if in fact he turns front-runner status into nominee status. suddenly it's independent voters that they need, i feel like they're going to be looking at it differently. alayna treene, thank you very much. i know it's very early in iowa. appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >>> ahead he

trump as day one-of his civil fraud case wrapped up, the former president just arrived back at trump tower although it's not clear whether he plans to attend when court resumes tomorrow morning. this is a case that could have been in the hands of a jury, instead a single judge, who already found trump liable for fraud will now decide how much he must pay up and it could be a quarter of a billion dollars. >>> plus, pushed out as the texas state trooper over his health problems developed while serving his country in iraq, health problems that he developed because of burn pits, this is a case we have followed here on "the lead" for years, today we're going to bring you some good news about a tragic case. >>> and leading this hour, a brand new warning about donald trump's true character behind the scenes, this time from his longest-serving white house chief of staff, john kelly, on the record only here on "the lead," confirming insults about veterans and wounded and killed service members that the former president made behind closed doors, when trump thought no one was watching, when trump tho

that is why trump tower is full of people who are great interest to law enforcement. so, a billion dollars for the deer island, sorry, they're just can't stop themselves. they keep coming up with these ridiculous inflated numbers. >> karen, the phrase mona lisa properties, i'm not sure how much weight it's going to help the judge was already declared there going to be overwhelming evidence of fraud. but, the idea that they are in court, continuing to push these valuations, how does that play? >> well, unfortunately for the trumps, there is an objective measure that the attorney general is relying upon, that are not the subject of will, that is whatever i wanted to be worth. the value is intangible think that someone will pay for. there are things like the square footage of a penthouse apartments, where they say the value is based on the size and the square footage and the price for square foot, and they put on a piece of paper that the penthouse is worth 30,000 square feet. but, it turns out that penthouse is less than 11,000 square feet, so they tripled the size of t

. >> cnn's kristen holmes is outside trump tower in new york. kristen, we want to remind everyone that the former president did not have to appear in person today. he certainly did. he's there and talking and talking a lot. he's in front of the cameras. what more can you tell us about the strategy? >> jessica and boris, he did not have to go. not only is he talking to the cameras a lot, it's being aired on a lot of news networks. that's something not going unnoticed with his team. this is something i've been asking trump advisers for months. how are you going to navigate a 2024 presidential campaign with all these looming trial dates and lengthy trials. clearly today we saw one of the ways they'd navigate that, by turning these trials into campaign events. as soon as trump was leaving trump tower, they knew there were cameras everywhere. they blasted out an email attacking letitia james like you would a political opponent. once he was downtown, he walked into the courthouse, he waited for the cameras, gave everyone an opportunity to roll on him

it deals with him losing his properties, his name on these properties, trump tower obviously made donald trump who he is to most of america. put him on the map. elevated his name recognition across the country. all the real estate properties. they want to tear it away from him. a lot of questions about the judge in this case, judge engoron who has comments that have surfaced, one of which he says that he understood why letitia james would have to go after the former president because he is just a bad guy that she had to go after. i don't know that we want judges to speak that way about cases that are before them. so this is a very -- this is a big question, right? especially when it's a bench trial. it is not even going to the jury and the judge is prejudiced before he even begins this or some might say. judge pirro said last night that he prejudiced himself with that comment. >> bill: andy mccarthy will join us in 45 minutes. 10:00 a.m. eastern is when the president goes through the hallway there. mccarthy writes this. the block of the democratic party is having its fantasy prosecution

trump now stands to lose ownership of his properties in the tri-state area, including his beloved trump towern downtown manhattan. with us now, msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor jill wine-banks. she hosts the hashtag sisters in law podcast, and author of the watergate girl. he says the trump is not called as a witness tomorrow, i wonder why you think he's planning to show up in court. >> i have a very simple explanation. he said that he would come to court in order to get the delay of a deposition in michael cohen's lawsuit against him. i think that he is just trying to avoid being deposed. that's why he said that he would be there. >> it's very circular when you put it that way. the judge will be weighing six fraud claims against trump. how is the a.g. likely to build her caseheyou look at these six claims? >> this is, of course a non jury trial. it's a trial for this judge who has already used words like obstruct us, frivolous, i feel like i am trapped in a groundhog day loop. therefore, he already knows what the fraud is. the first element has been established, and is just

the former president arrived at his one-time home of trump tower last night, a building that could soonn away from him pending the decision of judge arthur engoran. the jury found trump and his two oldest sons and his company liable of fraud in a case brought by new york attorney general latitia james. today, the punishment phase of the trial will begin where the former president could be fined $250 million and forced to give up all of his new yorktate properties. although he is on the witness list, for both the defense and the prosecution, it's unclear if trump will testify at the trial. this is massive. let's bring in nbc news legal analyst, andrew weissmann, the reporter on the investigation's desk at "the new york times," russ buttener joins us once again. once again, this is not if he's liable for fraud. this is how much he pays for it, consider ecto? >> that's exactly right. there's a few moving parts in this. there will be some kind of financial analysis that hasn't been explained yet, i don't think, about how you calculate the financial benefit that he obtained in doing this. wh

companies, which would force the former president to lose control of several of his assets including trump towerricka? >> all right. skyler henry, thank you. >>> tonight a massive search is under way for a 9-year-old girl who police say was abducted while camping with her family in new york. family members say charlotte sena went for a bike ride just after 6:00 last night at i astate park north of albany. they found her bike 30 minutes later. today new york governor kathy hochul called this every parent's nightmare and vowed to find charlotte. >>> well, student loan payments restarted today after a three-year pause. cbs's astrid martinez reports on how this is going to impact millions of americans. >> i think it definitely takes a mental toll on you. >> reporter: jessica yanez says the freeze on student loan payments offered her a chance to build a business in podcasting. >> what does repaying these loans mean for you? >> i think it just means that there's money i have to invest not only in myself but the community that i support. >> reporter: starting today, 43.6 million borrowers just leek yan

the certificates to operate his businesses, like trump tower, his properties that are based in new york certificate to be able to operate those in new york. i don't think it's that simple. but it will be very interesting. i do think he is watching this. and, you know, it is not a great strategy, if you have a judge not a jury trial to bash the judge before the trial, and called him deranged, say he needs to be disembark, saying he should be criminally investigated. but that's what he did today. so that says to me, he may think his already lost this round. maybe he is just looking for a hope and a prayer on appeal. but he is there more because he cares about the court of public opinion, and not necessarily what goes on in this courtroom. >> can we talk about the court of public opinion? because what he was saying on the courthouse steps has nothing to do with what's happening in the courthouse. right? he's out there ranting and raving about how wealthy he is and the value of his business. that was already established a week ago when the judge found him guilty of inflating his assets and

corporate spaces, garages, restaurants, he has commercial space, all of those assets including, say, trump towernot the residential side but the commercial side that is office space, all of that will go into receivership and ultimately get liquidated in order to pay off the amounts of money that the judge will ultimately determine. >> you know him well. you just said which is pretty significant. you don't think he's going to show up. 80%. he also on the witness list. do you think, they said he would testify if he's called, do you think that's the case? >> i don't. i mean, he didn't testify before the e. jean carroll cas, though he said he looked forward to it. remember, not everything that donald trump says, in fact most of the things that donald trump says turns out not to be true, so, do i think he wants to come in and testify? the answer is no. one of the worst things is when donald does testify the more he testifies the more he implicates himself. >> we've heard state attorney general, the unsinkable letitia james gave you a lot of credit for this suit. do think donald trump understands or t

and the likelihood that trump tower, on fifth avenue and 56th street might not be trump tower?a lot of -- these are civil penalties, these are not criminal penalties. so much of this is about damages, finds, restitution. real penalties, but not the kinds of penalties we see associated with the other cases that are going down in georgia, in d.c., and so on. >> let's talk about mark meadows, the word coming down that he got immunity to testify, which -- to the federal grand jury, which he has done three times, according to the abc news report. what do you make of that? >> not entirely surprising that he has an immunity deal with the prosecution, because he was not named as an unindicted coconspirator in that january 6th a federal indictment. rudy giuliani had speculated was one of the other individuals, but not mark meadows. and i think that really suggest that he perhaps was already cooperating with the government, providing this testimony at the grand jury. this, i think, is a really big deal. and a major development in this case. because mark meadows's chief of staff to donald

president trump now leaving trump tower in mid town manhattan. similar scene from yesterday.y the way, it was a beautiful day in new york. it's another stunning day today after eight straight days of rain. >> gillian: i really appreciate it. >> bill: you're welcome. you brought the sunshine here in gotham city as the sun beats off these black suvs. he will be back in court with the judge. he may make comments as he did yesterday. seemed to take advantage of every break in court. the lunchtime and conclusion yesterday before that judge. so you've got donald trump and hunter biden both facing legal challenges on the same day at the same time. former president expected back in court as i mentioned. that $250 million civil trial against him. also in delaware hunter biden will be arraigned on gun charges that were filed after his earlier plea deal collapsed. this thing has gone back and forth and now it is where it is back before the judge. david spunt has more for that case outside the courthouse now. david. >> bill, good morning. we're waiting for hunter biden to arrive here to

take for example the triplex in trump tower. fact that the developer over exaggerated the size of the property by the times its actual square footage can only be considered a fraudulent act the judges siding with the attorney general. others have pointed out that donald trump benefited from these valuations when he was paying less tax, but he is saying this is business as normal. and what experts have to say. certainly the judge does not agree that that is how business is done in new york. christian: thank you. before we go to break, some pictures from the u.s. congress, from the house of representatives tonight. republicans are debating a month themselves in the motion to vacate the speaker's chair. let's listen in. representative: -- will effectively end republican house majority that voters elected in 2022. this will neutralize the only counterweight in our government to the woke left's control of the senate and the white house. at a time when their policies are destroying our economy and have our borders to invasion. there a

i asked him specifically about his trump tower residency in midtown manhattan which he estimated the size to be 30,000 square feet instead of 10,000 square feet and placed the value at $327 million which is three times the amount of any apartment sold in new york history. take a listen to my attempt to ask him about that specific example. >> why did youoverstated the size of your apartment by 20,000 square feet? >> just for you know, it's a rigged deal. my financial statements are much lower than the actual net worth. the judge and your fake attorney general from new york who is driving business out, who is letting murderers run all over the city. they don't do anything to murderers running all over the city, the attorney general is a racist, leticia james, she ought to be ashamed -- >> again, ana, instead of donald trump defending himself and addressing the allegations against him, he's repeatedly attacked the new york attorney general, leticia james. he's called on both she and the judge to resign. while donald trump often does the attacking on the campaign trail, inside the courtr

all of those assets, including, say, trump tower, not the residential side, the commercial side that'svership. ultimately it, will get liquidated and order payoff no mounts money that the judge will ultimately determine. >> you know him well. he said it's pretty significant, you don't think he's going to show up. 80% you don't think he's gonna show up even though he said he was going to on friday. he's also on the witness list. they said he would testify if he was called. didn't that's the case. >> i don't, he didn't testify before the e. jean carroll case. he said that he looked forward to it. remember, not everything that donald says, in fact, most the things that donald says turns out not to be true. do i think he wants to come in and testify the answers now. one of the worst things is when donald does testify. the more donald testifies, the more he implicates himself. >> we have heard state attorney general the unsinkable, i will, say laetitia james, give you a lot of credit for this suit. do you think trump understands, if you're preparing to look him in the eye, do you think he u

result , he will lose control of several real estate companies in new york, including the famous trump tower. mr. rajabi , what details did this court release today? you can see the court session at approximately 10 am here time that is, it started at around 17:30 tehran time, until now, when i am at your service, this meeting is continuing. the picture you are painting behind me is official from today's court session with trump's presence, which was published an hour ago by the attorney general of the state of new york, colleagues. can we show you this picture that is behind you ? yes, continue. yes, yes. because you know that according to the law , during the time of such courts , it is not possible to have the film. they told me that this is one of those pictures almost an hour of trump was published, right before trump entered the meeting , he declared again in the news gathering that i am innocent and repeated and claimed that this court case and his trial are fake and false . he also made the same claims in the court session. he repeated that his lawyer also announced that, in fact, by

some garages, he has restaurants, he has commercial space, all of those assets, including say, trump towert the residential side, but the commercial side that is office space, going to receivership and ultimately get liquidated in order to pay off the amount of money that the judge will ultimately determine. >> you know him well, which you said, it is pretty significant you think he's not gonna show. up 80% don't think he's gonna, shop even though he said he was going to on friday. he is also on the witness list. do you think, they said he would testify if he's called, didn't that's the case? i don't. he didn't testify before the carroll case. not everything that donald says, most of the things you say turn out to be true. do i think he wants to come home and testify? the answer is no. one of the worst things as one donald does testify because the more donald testifies, the more he implicates himself >> do you think that trump understands that you're prepared to -- do you think he would be as formidable as an enemy when you parted ways? >> one of the reasons he asked me to work for him in

the former president is expected to be in court tomorrow as well, spending the night in his trump tower apartment, an asset he's accused of reporting as nearly three times its actual size and that added $200 million to its claimed value. joining me now is nbc news correspondent vaughn milliard, pulitzer prizewinning journalist michael schmidt, author of "donald trump versus the united states." and andrew weissman. vaughn, what's happening inside the court. explain the penalties trump might be facing, and the fact he's spoken already outside in the hallway is extraordinary to me because he's attacking the attorney general and the judge again only yards away from them. >> reporter: this repeats history for donald trump here, attacking not only the prosecutor bringing this lawsuit against him but also the judge who is sitting there directly in front of him. for donald trump he doesn't have to be here in court today, but he chose to attend the proceedings the first day of his trial here in lower manhattan after staying the night in trump tower and motorcading down. currently the courtroom i

you know, we know about trump tower mara logo and some golf courses, but he has dozens of other assets and companies throughout the united states. all of that is at risk because according to the attorney general of new york state, after years long investigation this case that she brought forward last year, she said that trump and the trump organization fraud truly lee and knowingly inflated the value of, of their assets by billions of dollars in order to get more favorable loans. that of course, is something that trump denies the trump organization denies, but a lot is at stake because if he's built, found liable on this, these charges against him in the jump organization, he and his family could lose control of many of the trump organization. businesses in the united states, particularly here in new york. and on that point gabriel, we talking about some of the prized possessions of the trump organization. trump towel is take us through what's at stake for him? yeah, that's right. the trump tower in new york city, of course it bears his name on it, the other hotels that bear his name o

trump tower. attorney general, letitia james, says trump and his two oldest sons inflate their assets to cheat the system. court officials say the gop leader valued trump tower at $500 million when its actual worth was 200 million. last week, the judge overseeing the case determined that fraud was committed and trump faces being banned from doing business in the state. >> the 49 ers are mourning the loss of former super bowl champion russ francis. he was one of two people who died in a plane crash yesterday. francis and his friend who was vice president of the aircraft owners and pilots association, crashed shortly after takeoff from an airport in lake placid, new york. it's not clear who was flying francis had a passion for aviation and recently bought lake placid airways during his retirement. he was a tight end for the 49 ers back in the mid 80s and helped the team defeat the miami dolphins in the 1985 super bowl. russ francis was 70 years old. >> the impact of the 49 ers reach beyond just the