perfect to talk about it our first panel, kindred ventures founder steve jang and gvb capital hans tung joins us now. good morning to both of you gentlemen. thanks for being with us >> thanks for having us. >> good morning. thanks >> hans, let me start with you where do you stand on this apple versus facebook squirmish apple using apple asking users to opt in seems obvious. what are the implications for small businesses which facebook made it about and also for developers operating in this ecosystem with this kind of business model hans are you there? >> yeah. you know, yes, as you know, i'm watching it grow over the last year or two. you look at how the smart phone ecosystem is trying to create more revenue for itself and also for its stake holders. >> you know, apple definitely has -- is trying to improve user experience but at the same time, you also see them working hard to keep their 30% tick rate on apps being downloaded from its app store in the famous battle between them and epic goes on. and obviously, facebook has self interest to join the force with epic to fight apple as a r