in favour of the old political leaders now gathered in turkey supported by turkey and qatar rather thand by iran. turkey and qatar don't want this a permanent war. that was the last bit of pressure on hamas to push them in that direction and in israel there is a tremendous pressure from the public to get hostages out and from the military, to end the war which has become militarily pointless. they are just bleeding soldiers. they lost ten soldiers last week, thatis lost ten soldiers last week, that is quite a lot for the israeli military. d0 that is quite a lot for the israeli military.— that is quite a lot for the israeli military. do you think the imminent _ israeli military. do you think the imminent change - israeli military. do you think the imminent change in - israeli military. do you think the imminent change in the | israeli military. do you think. the imminent change in the us administration had anything to do with this latest push? the threats from _ do with this latest push? tie: threats from donald do with this latest push? tue: threats from donald trump, do with this lates

they was forced to run by those remarks in turkey, then has to deescalate the situation. is that even if the company is committed to leaving serious, that will be much harder than practice, but it must be just been going through a social media post or an announcement. and meanwhile, the diplomacy continues in damascus. we've seen they tied in for administer the today this friday. how do you assess this ongoing diplomacy and what's the likelihood of sanctions being lifted? the tires want functions to be lifted is likely to be heated by, by the other countries, the europeans and the americans as well. i think it's important to see uh this uh, visit by the time in 4 minutes. but as part of the product continue, all of h d s. and the new searing governments diplomatic offensive. it has been a remarkably successful diplomatic offensive. we've had the, the economy and the code on the dash. the americans have sent people over before the french germans u k. amongst and there's other regional powers as well, like jordan, for example, saudi arabia i, i'm kept to so you will be give

so let's just leave turkey and the question, i think we have the answers on that for the moment. you said sally, a guitar as far as the region is concerned or important their interest or security, you said, how do they get that? maybe just one element on the track is she should also a 3 year press, the cheese. that's a very, it's not just a courtesy issue, but it's also a 3000000 refugees. that's proven a liability for the really not party. now if we move to the, for the region is in saudi shouting, yes, much of it is, is, is a security. and then also for salary and particularly the golf is also the drug trafficking issue, such as the trade of coffee gone, which taking its toll in the gulf region. and also there's a, an element in terms of influence, things that can come out of here. many of the gulf states, but primarily saudi in you a, i've had the best differences historically with islam, this movement that they seen as an existential threat to the market. and as a result, they want to make sure that serial will not become a base for rec, supporting that type of ideology to th

could you say a word about turkey turkey is playing a very interesting role. >> we talk a lot in theigence community about marijuana and turkey and what he's trying to accomplish right now in turkey and as you alluded to, there becoming a bigger player a more active player in so many places. in libya and other places you see turkish influence expanding. you also see a friction between turkey and russia and the competition there. there's an odd relationship between erlbaum and putin, they almost fight like brothers. they have a lot aligned and shared interests and the interest, the conflict so we see that flareup where turkey and russia in different places are really at odds with one another but at the end of the day they are both trying to expand their sphere of influence so turkey within the intelligence community is taking up a lot more of our bandwidth than they were even just so it's interesting they sit on the divide between the middle east and the west in terms of that relationship. one final question given our time here today and it's kind of the big question, if you were to w

and um, the, the turkey support to terry's group called s n a. s, you continues to attract to that and know that it is area a to them just talk ministration as loans as well in invoice or as well. so also we can clearly see the turkey support on the ground to the terrors, organizations and groups, and such as s n a. and also, and we can clearly see the churches, thrones, us the bomb being and assassinating the crew to the fighters as well as the could destroy nineties as one on the ground. so in this matter, we can clearly say that's to tease a phase. we need to pull days, so the game as well to be on the ground because on the latest developments in the last few months, we can clearly see that the west and powers has been taking off the turkeys role in the media release. yeah, interestingly enough, as well, a just asked me to, i'll shara saying the to the ousting of a saw, it was not just the victory for the syrians, but also for the turkish people. what we're going to have to leave it that us and can so it has a curtis to and less than also a ci

and the cooperation with turkey would take care of that chord. this question would take care of the isis question. because without the unity of syria, so that the units of the rocks, we're going to find ourselves back into an attempt to divide syria and attempt to divide the walk and clearly to good turkey in 5 minutes early. and that's not gonna be good to anyway, i'm thinking the french and the americans went on. my god, this is just one big mess. okay, mama shaw and many things. and they have taken times doing this once again that from the let's go back now to august on these reports and i'm finding that twice 24 was the 1st year on reco. the woman's more than $1.00 degrees celsius above pre industrial levels cope are it, is the well me to a logical organizations, deputies, sex, regional and she joins us now from geneva. cuz the time lucky. let's hope that we can get past the 1st question. this time we were talking about this 1.5, increase the powers agreement. so the other thing be owns that means that climate change would unleash fall most s

and this is an issue very dear to turkey. remember that turkey there is no the neighbor, i have very, very close relations to h. d. s. close isn't any of the x, the know, act on v c. the eastern region and syria dominated by the s d f. as basically a terrorist enclave of the, the being no, no different from the p k. k whom they've been fighting for a long time. so it is quite interesting to the west and nations take a bad stomach this morning turkey's favor than we've ever heard before. and it's also important to have their ongoing negotiations within turnkey. at between code is your for the age of functions and the government. and the question is, what will the ramifications of be that full of syria? i think if those to succeed, we'll see more of a moderating stats from the sd f. i'm an integration of east and syria into syria as a whole. if those talks failed, then it will look back there. often there is a possibility that we would see turkey renew, is military offensive against the sds, either through direct military inter

want to make sure that, of course, turkey's security guarantees, can be mitt, make sure that security interests of the kurds to right to fully contribute to future of their country can be deserved. >> i agree. i say this, for both of our countries. it is essential as syria's navigating this transition, that we keep a lid on the terrorist threat posed by isis or dash. and we have seen a manifesting a of that threat with the horrific incident in louisiana, where the individual in question said he was an adhere answer of dash, it shows, the enduring potency of the ideology. but, more acute danger would be if the more than 10,000 foreign terrorist fighters who are detained under the vigilance of your kurdish friends in syria were to get out. and reconstitute the very potent force that was dash in syria in iraq before it was defeated. and this is an enduring american interest and french. also i believe with the incoming administration. when dash was trying to build its caliphate, its physical caliphate, it controlled a huge chunk of land between iraq and syria. and that caliphate was undon

new suspects in the terror attack on the most co crocus concert hall numbered turkey and his reportedly seeking 15 year prison sentences for those involved. we don't fit to what lay behind one of russia's deadliest terrorist attacks this our, the year with our team here, national and great that you are welcome to the new strong we begin in new orleans where it's housing merge, the suspect in witness phase car bombing, who killed the police, 14 people had posted videos online, suggesting he was inspired by isis president, fight and confer about possible link following the deadly attack. ya is reported to be the near hours before the attack. he posed the videos on social media indicating, is inspired by isis, especially desire to kill, desire to kill, the, the guys of slides found this vehicle? would you read it to conduct this attack? the list is hold on for the pickup truck smashed into a new year. rebelar is a long 3 blocks of the popular bourbon, straight switch shops, allegedly fired into the the suspect twos being identified as sham suit didn't jabbar a us army veteran, later engage

applied to join breaks and turkey is a member of nato, is really becoming a turkey loves that had its bets, which would be a turning point if turkey officially joins brakes as a full member or saudi arabian, so the already a revise already. i mean one foot in and yes, i don't go to the media just, but i don't think breaks is anti america or is disruptive. i personally, i'm not a big fan of d dollarization, but i really firmly oppose weaponized in the data or what the nice in the swift system. because if you want to rip an ice that all of these other countries assets will, for example, and exclude other banks from the sort of system. fundamentally, philosophically you'll create such a level of despair, all apprehension that you will to do something as an alternative. therefore, when i listen to mister donald trump talking about slapping 100 percent tariff organs in the country, which wants to come up with an alternative carzillo, for example, you was talking about brakes members. i think president trump soon to be. we'll need to declare that no one should weaponized at all. no one shou

but i do, you know, it is turkey. okay. turkey is the one behind it. he's a very smart guy. they've wanted it for thousands of years and he got it. and those people that went in are controlled by turkey. and that's okay. that's another way to fight. then there's this recall which seems thrilled to see syria and chaos after a sods withdrawal tel aviv occupied huge swaths of syrian territory, including the strategic syrian side of mount herman. this is a historic day for them, at least the collapse of the acid resume. the tyranny in damascus offers great opportunity, but also is fraught with significant dangers. but it also means we have to take action against possible threats. one of them is a collapse of the separation of forces agreement from 1974 between israel and syria . disagreement held for 50 years last night and collapse, assuming i'm your band and it's positions. we gave her these really army the order to take over those positions to ensure that no hostile force and budgets so for right next to the border visual. this is a temporary defensive position until a suitab

the planet was visible to the naked eye from the uk to the us, turkey and china. this is bbc news. hello, i'm martine croxall. let's return now to the weather situation here in the uk now. amber and yellow weather warnings for snow and ice are in place for england and wales this weekend, with heavy snow and icy rain forecast. for more on this now, i'm joined by our weather presenter louise lear. it is serious stuff when there is an amberwarning. it is serious stuff when there is an amber warning. it is, the middle tier, so we could go red, it is unlikely at the moment, but amber red, it is unlikely at the moment, butamberwarnings moment, but amber warnings really moment, butamberwarnings really need to be taken serious consideration and they start from six o'clock this evening, so six o'clock this stargazers around the globe were treated to a stunning celestial scene on friday as venus appeared shining brightly above a crescent moon. the planet was visible to the naked eye from the uk to the us, turkey and china. this is bbc news. hello, i'm martine croxall. let's

. >> turkey is threatening the kurdish fighters with an operation in france and in order to protect them in syria. mr. musk will be joining the american demonstration a few days and he referred to germany and the united kingdom as a providence. when one is about to join the administration, what do you say about the communication process in the context of the intellectual campaign in a number of countries? that could be a reference to support to a member of far right parties in europe including in germany. if so we had to be careful given the long-standing position of the american republican party has been. now france and the united states have been working hand-in-hand for four years now to fight terrorism including syria and in the presence of usi to express condolences to the terror attack that took place. france has reliable and resolute -- terrorism. but the regime. that will only happen if all of the community has a role to play and of course the return of syrian -- wheel it to them. they have been our companions fighting together with us and the future of syria with the in and the

. >> turkey is threatening the kurdish fighters with an operation in france and in order to protect themr. musk will be joining the american demonstration a few days and he referred to germany and the united kingdom as a providence. when one is about to join the administration, what do you say about the communication process in the context of the intellectual campaign in a number of countries? that could be a reference to support to a member of far right parties in europe including in germany. if so we had to be careful given the long-standing position of the american republican party has been. now france and the united states have been working hand-in-hand for four years now to fight terrorism including syria and in the presence of usi to express condolences to the terror attack that took place. france has reliable and resolute -- terrorism. but the regime. that will only happen if all of the community has a role to play and of course the return of syrian -- wheel it to them. they have been our companions fighting together with us and the future of syria with the in and the future of th

and we understand that this given moments, as the minister of foreign affairs of russia in turkey, held the phone calls on sunday to discuss the developments within the immediate region to discuss the prospect of ensuring that its interest in the region taking into consideration the pipeline is one of them must be protected and also taking into consideration what friends may arise and we understand that as a result of this phone call, they discuss a number of other matters pertaining to russia and turkey by lateral relations. but at this given time, we understand that the statement provided from the ministry of defense of russia suggests that a number of drones have been down in an operation sites in the southern parts of the country. and we understand that the attacks have been supported by russian air defense systems. and we understand that there have been some minor damage, but not much more information as to whether or not there has been major damage to the pipeline. and we understand that the ministry of defense has issued a statement providing further information. let's listen. on

can receive its gas through turkey, under the black sea and into europe. from western europe. that will be lng sea borne gas thatis that will be lng sea borne gas that is shipped across countries into slovakia to maintain their security of supply. maintain their security of su -l . ~ :, maintain their security of su..l_ :, , supply. what happens with contracts _ supply. what happens with contracts with _ supply. what happens with contracts with gazprom, i supply. what happens with contracts with gazprom, is| contracts with gazprom, is there a cost attached in breaking those? tt there a cost attached in breaking those?- there a cost attached in breakinuthose? , , :, breaking those? it is gazprom that is the _ breaking those? it is gazprom that is the one _ breaking those? it is gazprom that is the one that _ breaking those? it is gazprom that is the one that has - breaking those? it is gazprom that is the one that has to - that is the one that has to break its contract. it can�*t deliver the gas to slovakia, so it is the one that is at fault as it were. its

the has improved with this new year from turkey down to was the foot of a rape at this line. here's a cold front, or it really is us as introduce pharaoh breeze. once again, a shamar lasting a day or so running out of iraq cross q a, dental us, he reads the temperatures and the low twenty's. if you're lucky in your field. and of course, these are all the dust, these thought a full of send, that on the right hand side. that means chart was easily of so the concentration of have the system enough kind of set a couple of days seem likely to be snow here. so that's a wall around the red sea in mac here again. so to you one degrees and it's not bad 5 days from tuck you down sort of an event. admittedly, by night it gets cold. even in the cities tend to near freezing or freezing. i left her 0. dowser is about 6, so it's easy to get frost on the dry and, but it's really close by the time sunshine, which is pretty abundant even this time of year with low temperatures, showers in africa. well, summer range. this was you can say we're really excited to pack up tonight, so they're fairl

or if they're not frozen, i think that a catastrophe will hit the syrian people, gulf states and turkey. i have been sending a to syria and the us as relax some restrictions on humanitarian supplies. but western governments are cautious. many include the leaders of the new administration on their list of terrorist. the signal that sanctions won't be lifted until it shows it will protect minorities and share power. is almost obviously what i have made it clear that the political process is closely linked to the economic reconstruction process. especially for a european constitutional stance with regard to sanctions and reconstruction through financial supports. syria has entered a new era, but the road to recovery is uncertain as likely to be a long one. vince and monica and l just sierra for counting the cost to sit on the head top. that is a non resident city, a fellow for the serial project of the atlantic council. he specializes in political avoid economies, especially within syria. and he joins us now from the syrian capital, damascus, where the internet is still a bit apache, it ti

so why not turkey also try it's like started back in 2015 now. so that's why i wanted to actually that would have been my next question is looking at the role of us in all of this. yeah. for us, the resource don't really hear about that. role at the moment in this work on quite simple, they've decided not to take part in the last few weeks, but they have withdrawn their forces to the crew to the coast. and i think logically, we should dissipate that they would want to stay present in the ministry and because that's the most important strategic adventures that us, it has given to them. and with the further exploration of guys in oregon, administrative would be fully show them to pack them go home. so the americans will need to balance them off as well. but that game goes back to the need for it to be a by luxury. i haven't agreed agreement between them and the new government tries of the non and imposed presence using excuse of terrorism and other one of the reason is that the us says it's there essential the i still doesn't return where all we wo

bets into a be turning point if turkey officially joins brakes as a full member or saudi arabian, so the already a revise already. i mean one foot in and yes, i don't go to the media just, but i don't see breaks is anti america or is disruptive. i personally, i'm not a big fan of the dollarization, but i really firmly oppose weaponized in the dollar or what the nice in the swift system. because if you want to rip an ice that all of these other countries assets will, for example, and exclude other banks from the sort of system. fundamentally, philosophically you'll create such a level of despair, all apprehension that you will to do something as an alternative. therefore, when i listen to mister donald trump talking about slapping 100 percent tariff organs in the country, which wants to come up with an alternative covers you, for example, you was talking about brakes members. i think president trump soon to be. we'll need to declare that no one should weaponized at all. no one should weaponized this with says that who reduce the pressure on many countries which want to really have an

after 12 years, us presents elect donald trump cold turkey, a major force and key to serious feature extrude. yeah, that's, that's the country that has the most potential animals. well, genuine influence to, to be honest, to, to shape things that it'll lead to leave the message for an investment that doesn't have, but it has expertise on the ground. it has an influence. huge influence with, i'll show and then it has ties with potential finance. here's like a guitar to try to shape events. purchase presence, ridge up, type ad on has pledged, full cabinets support to the new syria and administration. who's experienced in governance has so far be limited to ad lib took his role in there could be the, the in the as a role of rebuilding with its construction companies solving the ways of economic opening. if the sooner humans going to open the country economically took years, that makes a, as a experience on that, not only itself but, you know, showing debate for in the 19 ninety's we did that in the, in the caucuses and, and the central asia. definitely, we can do that in the city as wel

>> turkey. >> jimmy: you like turkey?: if it's prepared well, it's delicious. >> i like -- i like sweet potato. >> jimmy: okay. >> this year, i even tried sweet potato with marshmallow on top. [ cheers and applause ] >> jimmy: oh, yeah, that's very american. >> sweet! potato. >> jimmy: that's right. >> and i like a bit of the cranberry on the turkey. >> jimmy: oh, all right. >> i just gorge. >> jimmy: i like that you're embracing it. many don't, many don't. even though it's kind of the easiest holiday to understand. >> truly. sit and eat. and give thanks. >> jimmy: sit and eat and give thanks. >> and it's kind of rehearsal for christmas because it's the same meal. [ laughter ] >> jimmy: you're more american than a lot of americans in a way. are you excited that the mcrib is back? [ laughter ] >> i heard this rumor. i'm delighted. [ laughter ] >> jimmy: have you ever had a mcrib? >> i don't know what you're talking about. >> jimmy: at mcdonald's they have this thing called a mcrib. >> right. >> jimmy: it's rib meat. >> do

turkey has attacked the u.s. allies, the syrian defense force in northeast syria.s is such a fragile peace. is it important to keep some u.s. troops there to make sure that those isis prisoners are kept in prison by the syrian defense force, to make sure that the whole thing doesn't collapse and isis regain a foothold? >> one thing we've learned over the years is that what happens inside of syria doesn't stay inside of syria. you see all sorts of consequences that flow out of the country, whether it's the potential for terrorism that goes well beyond syria, whether it's mass human displacement. so we have a stake in trying to make sure that this extraordinary opportunity that is now before the syrian people to actually control their own lives and their own destinies, not have a dictator do it, which is the case for the last five decades, not have some outside power. do it not have a terrorist group do it. that's the possibility. but you're exactly right. it's incredibly fragile. and i think the u.s. role in trying to help guide this and shape this, along with our p

that is, the city of forces backed by turkey, will conducting these operations against the y p g, and u. s. secretary of state antony blinking will meet the foreign ministers of the u. k. 5 as germany. and it's the later on thursday to discuss serious future diplomatic ad is a james space has more and that's from damascus. a new flag, and a new hope for the future. the wall. the international community is showing a willingness to engage with a new syria. it's not yet in pricing in the german and french foreign ministers last week, the highest level visitors to damascus since the full of the side families, brutal room for the new administration. perhaps the biggest issue on the table is the listing of the publishing sanctions, which significantly depressed the economy affecting the lives of every city west. the leaders believe they need to maintain leverage, to set things on a pause to democracy. they believe that paul is still defined by the un security council vote in 2015 resolution 2254 goals for a broad based interim government, a new constitution, and then free and fair elections

what you see is for to turkey and russia.they are trying to of influence within intelligence picking up a lot more and with years ago. >> between the middle east and the west terms of that relationship. in a meeting rather president and security covenant in the room that particular way it relates to the close by change from that perspective the role we play and how we select and analyze the place and our life in the intelligence the first line of defense saying we are learning about this technology, how could it? unimaginable back rooms of mental actions and what you are about i want to but i'm delighted be due this, of joy our time together. >> survey will bring care about public have a wonderful d

but i will say it was turkey. turkey has been after that b country in different names and forms and shapes for 2,000 years, those people that went in are from turkey. president erdogan is a friend of mine. i like and respect. i think he respects me also. he's the one that didn't go after certain people that i requested that he not. the kurds. i don't know how long that is going to go because they are natural enemies. they hate each other. he didn't do that yet. and he didn't do it in the past also. he started and i said please don't do that and he didn't do it. if you look at what happened with syria, russia was weakened, iran was weakened. he is a very smart guy. they went in and took over and that's the way it is. >> do you have concerns about hts taking control? >> by the way, i have the envoy here. is that in the back, standing with my son eric is steve, just got back from the middle east ro and he has done a fantastic as job. he's a great deal maker. i said we need people who make deals. we understand where p

but i will say that it is turkey. turkey has but after that question in different names in different forms in different shapes for 2000 years. those people that went in are from turkey. president erdogan is a friend of mine. he's a guy i like and respect and i think he respects me also. he is the one that did not go after certain people after i requested he not read you know who i am talking about. the kurds. i do not know how long that will go because they are natural enemies. they hate each other. but he did not do that. he did not do that in the past also. he started. i said, please don't do that. he did not do it. look at what happened with syria. russia was weekend. around --iran was weekend. he was a very smart guy. he sent his people in there through different forms and different names and they went in there and took over and that is the way it is. by the way, i have the envoy. is that in the back? standing with my son eric is a steven witkoff who just got back from the middle east. he has done a fantastic job.

but obviously it is the cube question is, what is a rope not a 2nd paint the main world, even turkey, the main. but as a trojan, believe it works in terms i'm not looking, i'm not asking for independence. so i think there's this misperception, the main political route to me. the political leaders should be including the leader of the p. j. k. upload join himself. they renounced, i don't the state long time it will decades ago. so right now it's more for the coverage that in georgia is more in the formal democrats vision and the input. yeah, the broadening of the political, legal calls of a federal life. and there's more of the process that has been recently unleashed. and if this process defense, i think that will ease the process or that little bit been the syrian curtis groups with the, with the syrian, uh, with a new, at the station in damascus. an obvious of the trucking will be pushing um would it be very much pressure on by the other non cillian codes, meaning that you know the p take a other month within the p y d y p g, or the s t a as to live syria and i can do that condition

what's been the reaction from turkey? you know, surprisingly, but there hasn't been any strong reaction coming out of turkey, which tends to be said about hungry, which is one of the key, a consumers of russian gas west listen in the church stream pipeline is indispensable in the natural gas supply and hungry and central europe, security of energy supply as a sovereignty matter. therefore, every action that threatens the security of our energy supply must be considered an attack against sovereignty. the 140 minutes earlier said to that, so this attack on search stream doesn't only threaten hungary, energy, security, but the entire energy security of the european union. were there any signs that the turkish pipeline would be targeted? why would he have decided to attack the term stream, starting from january 1st, the contract between russia and ukraine on the transit operation, gaston central europe fits expired. you have decided not to prolong it, not to sign a new one effectively making this a 3rd stream pipeline. the ma

not have financial from the health from other countries in the region specifically cuts out or, or turkey or so the, any, the evelyn uh, they won't be able to afford the 2 of the main pillows. so none of the, the city and economy on, or of course oil and agricultural, the oil fields on the control of the us bacteria and democratic forces. the nation obviously deprives of, of a main source of income. are there any other sectors in which the government can invest to kick, stop the economy and make up for that short as well as collection in the season? manufacturers used to have a very good reputation before the southern end of a 60 percent of the seed in economy was responsible and was this fund. and basically the results of the same ease of working in trade and manufacturing as well as in logistics. see to remain a very important to us both dish and hop. and the reason of is me to tell you in a basin, and you can leverage this position again. but it also needs accost systems and investment in roads, in energy for in order to, to get to pick up manufacturing again. and there is also a lot o

a certainly have mazda demands, baby send somewhere else to katara with turkey. and this remains unclear so far how this will be sat so, so we're waiting for official announcement again. on the human ends here in front, we can expect 600 trucks of age 2 floating daily to restore, essential infrastructure and provide urgent relief. as you remember, they have money to run the situation and the strip is catastrophic. 15 months have to the beginning of the war, talks about phase 2 will start 2 weeks into the 1st stage and phase 2 will last another $42.00 days. during the reach, remaining hostages will be freed, including is really soldiers have israel will vent withdrawal completely from the gaz. 3 pad hostilities will cease and we hear that withdrawal process will be gradual. not a one time departure, and that's how is real, will make sure that her mouse actually implements a big a big deal and the terms of the agreement also no tor same. israel will establish at boxes between its territory and the gaz, a straight to protect its southern regions. which means id have

you know, turkey a obviously was very instrumental in what happened in, in syria. you know, israel, of course, there that there does start with the war guys uh, what was from october of, of 23. so the before trump. but clearly nobody's returning. it will involved in israel to continue and to perhaps expand deal with other longstanding kind of practices they see. so the words a ran, but yeah, i think across the world we are seeing a lot of kind of very long standing situations being resolved or attempts to resolve them. and i think it is a goal to try and so it will continue in 2025 on that point, lee, have we seen a lot of unfinished business, particularly in the middle east. that is going to carry over into 2024. i mean, israel has demonstrated an immense destructive capacity. it stands accused of genocide. but there's a lot of unfinished business when it comes to protecting its or securing its southern board of securing its northern border, securing its shipping ability. it's the terran capability from a ron. what we've seen that on the mind, and of course we hav