at the same moment, twa flight 266, a super-cony, like the one that crashed over the grand canyon, isdlewild airport, known now as jfk. it's coming through 8,000 feet. united is told to head to a specific navigational fix or intersection, where it's to enter a holding pattern and await further instructions, but there are problems. the plane has two navigational instruments used at the time to determine position. one of them isn't working. and the plane is also traveling more than 500 miles per hour, a speed later determined to be excessive and the dc-8 flies past its clearance. >> i would equate it to driving down a street. if you know where you are and you know the second left turn is the turn you need to make, that's great. but if you didn't see the first road to the left, you would drive beyond it because you didn't recognize the first cue. >> at 10:33 a.m., laguardia tower advises twa of traffic off to its right. no one realizes it, but the united dc-8 is heading straight for them. then seven seconds later, as both planes approach 5,000, there's a brutal collision. one of the dc-8

all 230 bodies were recovered in twa, from shallower water. themselves will tell us -- and they're in good condition, they stay in good condition because of the coldness at the bottom of the ocean floor. 34, 35 degrees, so the bacteria can't function and decompose the bodies. we'll be able to tell even two years from now, whether they breathed in soot from a fire, there was a fire on board. we'll be able to tell how long they were dead before they crashed by the stomach contents. they were fed something as soon as they take off. it takes time to digest it, were they -- >> even weeks after the fact? >> even months after the fact? >> we find stomach contents in people mys, the last things they ate. we can also tell that -- whether they were alive when they hit, when they landed in the water, by looking at whether they breathed in any water. >> could youone of the theorys e is that potentially there was depressurization and they were killed either intentionally or accidentally by depressurization of the plane. >> no, we can't tell that. but if th

to come back with the real deep sonar to be able to see it. >> as randi was talking about after the twa800 tragedy there was discussion about whether it was a bomb or missile that brought down the plane. turned out to be mechanical catastrophe. you can't disprove anything until you find that black box, correct? >> that's the best piece of evidence we can get. it has the trajectory, what was going on with the controls, what was happening inside the cockpit. but we have to build our knowledge with whatever evidence we can get. so the physical evidence will be the strongest, but right now the radar data appears to be the only thing we have. >> does it make sense just from a mechanical standpoint that a transponder would be -- would stop working? does that have to be turned off or is that something that can just malfunction? >> it's hard to see how the transponder would go off and then the airplane would still sort of fly the way it did. you can have an electrical failure, you can have a problem with the antenna, things like that. there are two transponders on the airplane. so you actually

he was head during the crash of twa. jim, thanks for joining us. so help us understand this with all this new information about the flight may have continued for several hours, based on information that the engine gave -- that was picked up by satellite, the u.s. officials now say that the flight may have continued westward into the indian ocean. why would that information be coming out now, six days after the flight disappeared? >> well, it took several days to get the ntsb experts in location and so i would imagine that now with individuals who will highly specialized in the accident investigation arena, that they are able to start putting together this puzzle as to where is the best place to look for this aircraft. >> there is a thing called acars. the airline's service data system. >> that's correct. >> did i get that right? >> yeah. it's a maintenance system that goes to a satellite and then to the ground that provides information about the mechanical health of the aircraft. it was that system that was very helpful in identifying the location

how long did it take before you saw what happened to twa flight 800? were in a high state of alert lert. olympics were a week away. we had threats coming out of the middle east not specifying the aircraft but it took the fbi, we have a standard of roof we have to be absolutely sure before we say something as you know better than anybody. it took us a year and a half. >> took you a year and a half. for the last couple weeks there were some people saying you know what you only know this for sure and that for sure and everybody is speculating. isn't this how the investigation begins when you have a crumb here and a crumb there? >> we were at an advantage. we could tell people what to do. we could set up a wipe board with the 15 scenarios of what it could be. we could call in people from patterson air force base we could bring all of these row sources to there we had all of the assets for the united states nave he of a to the site. we had the advantage of seeing this huge fireball puns of people. we knew where it was. that evening we took a lot of stuff in

bobby skoelly was on the neighbor vi dive team that recovered wreckage of twa flight 800. >> the item could have sunk, it could have been blown completely off on a different course or pushed some place else and the ship will just never find it again. >> reporter: china's government released this photo of an object that turned out to be a whale carcass but if any wreckage is found, a drift analysis map can help find the rest of the plane. data marker buoys helped measure where the wreckage of air france flight 447 came from. >> over a two week time frame they were tracked our by hour to see where they were reporting themselves as they drifted in the ocean currents so you see the current -- the buoy down here on the southwest, the red dot started here, went west and then ended up over in this region. >> reporter: in the air france case, one map grid was calculated as if the pingers were working. when they recalculated as if they were not working that's when they located the plane. could that work for malaysia airlines flight 370 in? this method could work in the ocean but without wrecka

one of his most notable investigations includes the 1996 crash of twa flight 800. that one off of long island. bob, let me get you to react to what phil lebeau just said. he said he's never heard of a crash like this where a plane literally goes missing for three solid days. what do you think? >> i think that clearly is the story now. it really is quite remarkable. we have never come close to having anything like this previously. there have been major accidents and a lot of far-away people and places in the world, and nothing like this. >> this one reminds me of two accidents, one was the air france disaster off of -- in the south atlantic about three or four years ago. the other, frankly i was talking to my wife as we drove out to long island over the weekend, was that twa flight. as i recall, in that case, it was an electrical spark that caught gas vapor in a largely empty gas tank in the plane. am i recalling that correctly, bob? >> you've got an excellent memory. next time, you can say it was the left fuel tank. >> the left fuel tank. okay. in that case, there

james calstrom, former assistant director of the fbi and the man who led the investigation into the twa flight 800 disaster in 1996. welcome, sir. great to have you here. >> nice to be with you. >> all indications point to this being a deliberate act. the u.s. authorities were finally let in to help out in this investigation. it seems after their involvement, we're getting a better sense of what we're dealing with. prior to this, the malaysian authorities didn't appear to want to be cooperative and they were holding back on information. >> well, you know, we're very good at this, and the world takes advantage of our technology, takes advantage of our military. takes advantage of this great country we call america. it sure is looking like the plane was hijacked. either with the participation of the crew or not. and, therefore, what would the motive be? you don't hijack a plane necessarily to crash it somewhere, you know, to make a statement. i mean, i guess it could be the case as it was in 9/11, but why fly is five, six, seven hours? why not turn around and crash it in some major stay?

at twa we found them at day six. told us nothing. but it could tell something.ery strange situation. the idea that this data could be streamed real-time, absolutely it could. it's matter of money. it's matter of satellite time, it's matter of downlink time. it would be a very expensive proposition for the united states aviation industry. military does it. >> when you say expensive, traditional black boxes versus these real jim black boxes, what are we talking about? >> exactly. the same data that would be going into the two black boxes which are orange -- but -- >> right. always found that interesting how they came up with that. >> whos but the data could be streamed to a satellite. a data link. and the military does that on a lot of their combat aircraft. but i'm not an expert in this field but i would suspect it be extremely expensive. they have to get all the satellite time and you know how expensive that is. >> i want to pick your brain on this. you were around for flight 800, and already people are trying to connect, well, this sounds -- the feel of -- even

>> it was a completely different scenario with twa flight 800. i see so many differences. like they were saying before. we had ntsb as the lead agency in that investigation. we had many organizations cooperating. the u.s. navy was cooperating with ntsb and we meticulously set out and did the search and started out at a rescue mission and turned into a recovery mission and brought back as many -- as much of the aircraft as we possibly can work with the faa and t with wa and ultimately, put together the full investigation before there were any -- before they came up with any estimates of what happened to the aircraft. >> but that is here in the united states, captain that that happened. and if you are going to fly airplanes like the 77 you should have accountability and now how to investigate if the worst of it happened. we'll get back -- >> you can't. >> the search for flight 370 is suspended today. we are not much closer to answers, exactly where the plane is. the search is on for 176 people after a devastating mudslide in washington state. that's next. gunderman group is

in twa, we were looking at 120 feet of water.is did go into the ocean and if there was a catastrophic break-up at altitude or if the pilots flew it into the ocean themselves, depending on the depth of the water, you're going to have a very, very difficult time. 130 feet was a big problem for us. we had all of the resources of the u.s. navy helping us. i don't know what they'll do over there if it's 1,000 feet deep. >> it's mind boggling that they have no idea where it is, at least for now. others are comparing this incident to the last plane to just vanish, air france flight 447 headed from paris back to rio de janeiro back in 2009. black boxes weren't found in that disaster about two years later. is it possible that we'll have that kind of time go by or even longer? >> i think it's possible. the black boxes are going to be transmitting signals but they don't last forever. i think they last for about 30 days. it's mysterious to me -- i'm not an aircraft engineer, but it's mysterious to me that all of the communication systems on

the 1986 flight, twa flight, a boeing 747 took off from new york city around 9:00 p.m.er it exploded, the wreckage raining down in a ten-mile debris field in the atlantic ocean. all 230 people on board were killed. the investigator, james kallstrom was called to lead the most extensive air disaster in american history, he sifted through a million pieces of debris and four years later they were able to determine that the crash was caused by a fuel tank explosion. joining me now, james kallstrom, former fbi assistant director in charge, and a chairman of the marine corps law enforcement foundation. thank you for being here, james. >> thank you. >> your thoughts know iing whate know tonight on what happened to this airplane. >> it is very confusing environment we have there. i think after all this time that they have not found any debris, i mean, you really have three things. the pilots wanted to kill themselves, suicide by airplane. they had ample opportunity to do that. they wanted to cause a major stir, to blow up something, they had ample opportunity to do that. or the

twa 800 was not too far from long island. there was a mainland we set up.ig hangar we put all the evidence that was gathered, we were able to put that plane back together. my job was working with the coast guard, bringing up some of this evidence. you're going to need specialized equipment. some of those depths, you're going to need, you know, the type of equipment that found the titanic that was used to go down deep to find the air france plane that crashed in the atlantic. you're going to need that type of equipment. you're going to need the best type of teams. you're going to need locations. you're going to have to switch off teams every 30 days. because these are hard shifts to work so far off the mainland. at the same time, you're going to make sure that the families are getting the information that they need. >> yeah. greg, on that note, what will the role be of navy submarines? i mean, we have not really heard at all about their capabilities or what their involvement is. what are they capable of doing? >> well, the navy doesn't publicize what the act

>> twa. >> the twa -- the twa flight. >> lockerbie?ey know what happened on that flight. what happened on that flight was a fuel tank that was too close to the electrical line, and it blew up. >> i don't believe it. >> okay. >> more news. the results are in. we're moving on to politics now. senator rand paul, he is the favorite from cpac. for the second year in a row, the u.s. senator from kentucky won the conservative conference's annual straw poll. paul finished with 31% of the vote, nearly tripled senator ted cruz's 11%, followed by neurosurgeon ben carson at 9% and new jersey governor chris christie at 8%. if the straw poll is to be believed, senator marco rubio's stock has fallen in a big way. after finishing in second place last year with 23% support, rubio came in seventh this time with around just 6% of the cpac vote. coming off his cpac victory, senator paul looked to differentiate himself from the runner-up. >> what do you think of ted cruz's practice of confronting the sometimes putting senate republicans as colleagues in to

chris boss, you investigated the tragedy of twa 800 off the south coast of long island. i know you've been thinking about how to investigate this disaster, even if they have not found the wreckage. even if no wreckage exists, isn't there plenty of investigation like the twa 800 investigation that could go on in the meantime? >> yeah, there's a lot here. and if i could talk in, the focus has been on the communication from the flight crew. three things about the communication. the first thing, of course, i find it very hard to believe they were in trouble and they never would have communicated they were in trouble. the second thing that the plane started to make a turn and then they communicated calmly afterwards while they were fighting a disaster, with no sound whatsoever, even an oxygen mask. i tifind that impossible to believe. and i think the final communication -- all right goodnight -- is an abnormality and it is unusual for them to not self-identify the plane, mh 360 at that time. we see that a lot. at the beginning of a crime, they say, i did this, did i ti that.

. >> coming up, a man who helped recover twa flight 800.g to joinç us to share his expertise on these new developments. these new developments. stay with us. ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc works with you to understand yours and help plan for your retirement. visit a branch or call now for your personal retirement review. help keep teeth clean and breath fresh with beneful healthy smile snacks. with soft, meaty centers and teeth cleaning texture ...it's dental that tastes so good. beneful healthy smilfood and snacks. those litt cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet helpsapproved to treattime the msymptoms of bph, like needing to go freently. tell yr doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthenough for sex. do not take cialis if youtake , as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drinklcohol in excess. side effects may include headac, upset stomach, delayed baache or muscle ache. to

. >> john, what's the plaus sa built that this could have been a mechanical failure as with flight twa 800. >> given the fact that it flew for an hour in the opposite direction, i wouldn't put it in the same mode as twa. now, if the catastrophic failure could be electrical. such as a fire on board, that is not uncommon to have the potential to have a big fire on board in an airplane, especially in the electrical center because there's so much energy there. this airplane has been very reliable in those areas. again, it's -- i would put the airplane further down on the list than other things. >> well, let's consider some of them. john ransom, what about this being done intentionally by the pilot, such as happened with egypt air flight 990? >> well, as was mentioned, this was a fairly modern airplane with a bunch of capability to communicate with the outside world. a lot of data from the airplane. for them to all stop at the same time would take the work of somebody who has actually studied the systems in some detail to know how to turn off all of the systems at the same time. there's a s

for example, in july 1996, twa flight exploded off island sound and minutes after taking off. from that boeing 747, some 1600 pieces were recovered and used to reinstruct the fuselage. it took more than four years for an ntsb inquiry to determine the explosion was likely caused by a short circuit in the fuel tank. al is with us now, the investigation of the twa flight 800 crash, al, good to have you on the program. we are going to trade on your knowledge in this area. first of all, are you surprised that this far into this investigation, this far into this search, we still have so little concrete information about it? >> yes, very surprised and like i said before, this is the most unusual investigation of a large aircraft that has ever taken place. >> once the plane is found, what does an investigation like this entail? well, supposing these are part of the wreck can, then the first thing they will do is track back and see where did they drift from? where can 13 days ago, 14, whatever, they have to figure out where the wreck calling went down. wherever it is. and then they hav

her boyfriend was aboard twa flight 800. she talks about holding on to her hope and the grief that followed at 5:45. >>> the police officer accused of rapinga woman he was supposed to be helping while he was on duty. that police officer went to court today. new developments this evening, jeffrey graves case is particularly challenging because he is a public servant. robert handa was in the courtroom. and robert this is quickly becoming a high profile case. >> there's a lot of stakes at all different levels in this case going on in the hall of justice. a lot of eyes on the police officer and how he's treated in court. >> people versus jeffrey graves. >> reporter: the six year veteran san francisco police officer stepped up calmly in court today. 38-year-old jeffrey graves is charged with one count of forcible rape. graves and other prosecutors took the victim to a hotel. after the other officers left, graves is accused of raping the woman. >> in crimes of violence you don't want an accused to have weapons. >> reporter: just g

and twa 800 is proof of that.00 people say they saw some kind of fire trail in the sky july 17th, 1996 leading to speculation it was a missile and terrorism that brought down the 747, killing 237 people. former abc correspondent pierre salinger fed the flames of conspiracy in correctly claiming it was a u.s. navy ship that shot the plane down. it was pain staking work by investigators who concluded an explosion to the plane's center fuel tank was the real culprit. in some airline mysteries, it's not how the plane went down that grips the public but how passengers survive. such was the case of flight 571. in 1972 it crashed in the andes mountains. of the 45 passengers on board, only 16 would live to tell about it. the tragedy was made famous in the 1993 film "alive" depicting survivors eating the dead to stay alive the 72 days it took for rescue. in all these examples and more, airline disasters that began as mysteries in most cases eventually were found and solved. experts believe that will be the case with this l

the older model aboard twa flight 800 would record only 18 indicators.tigators needed to reassemble the debris because the data only gave a partial view of what happened on board at the time of the crash. >> essentially, speed, altitude, heading. so it was not that helpful in the -- determining what the probable cause was. >> reporter: the missing data from flight 370 captures more information, but will it be enough? >> if there's something conclusive that says the engines quit or there was a fire extinguisher that went off, it will narrow the accident down to where they may not have to reconstruct the entire aircraft. >> reporter: instead, investigators could choose to recover a few key pieces and hope they reveal the rest of the puzzle. alexandra field, cnn. >> thank you very much. our breaking news tonight, we're awaiting word from the search zone as ships rush to pick up those unidentified objects. and we'll give you that news the moment we get it here on cnn. so back now with me, my team of experts. first, jeff wise. >> the main thing is the press r

it was her fate to be the lead stewardess on twa in 47 on that flight. shiite vets had attacked the plan and taken -- plain and taken people hostage. they were breaking down the passengers into confusion and submission. lilly derickson was frightened and who wouldn't be but her composure returned and she began thinking about what she could do to moderate this impossible situation. for example it emerged that she spoke german and some of the hijackers did as well. that became the only common language actually that all the parties had. she intervened sometime psychologically, sometimes physically. they once asked her to sing german songs to them believe it or not in the long drama of this hijacking and she did so. very strange. she and the pilot both showed amazing courage in the twa hijacking. it was remarkable. i suppose we all admire this kind of thing and we wonder whether we would be up to it ourselves. these people prove themselves up to the level of events and extraordinary persons. the third category i found to look at his more predictable, the tri

jon: you know from the twa flight 800 investigation, though, that in the absence of solid answers, thespiracy theories are springing up all over the place. it looked, you know, like these two guys, two iranian guys with stolen passports must have been terrorists, now the officials seem to be shooting down that possibility. what are we left with here? >> well, as i mentioned, there's two kinds of terrorism, and there's still two additional types of crimes this could be. and then, of course, there's the possibility of mechanical failure which is what happened with twa flight 800. flight 900 was mechanical -- 800 was mechanical failure. now, as they look at this plane, they have to look at the plane in terms of crimes at three things. they have to look at everyone that was on the plane, everything that was on plane, all the cargo, all the luggage, and then they have to look at everybody that touched the plane. and they're going to have to look at that in several different airports, because something could have been put on plane in the cargo that was potentially set to create a catastrophe

>> something similar to twa 800 or to a uta flight that was in africa or pan am 103. for some reason, the aircraft blew up and there was no signal. there was nothing. you have to just go out of your way to try to figure out where it is. that may take some time. it hasn't disappeared forever. >> the list of nos goes beyond the no communication for the pilot. there is no trace of where it may have gone on the radar. there is no debris field. there are no signals from the so-called black boxes, the flight data recorders. what does that tell you? >> it tells you that it is something unprecedented that hasn't happened before but we're used to that happening in civil aviation. i don't know what the answer to it is. i don't have any more than anymore else a logical explanation except this happened in not a heavily populated part of the world or ocean. we are just going to have to keep looking until we find them. >> does it surprise you it has been three days with nary a trace? >> absolutely. it is unprecedented. >> what strikes me, bob, we have all heard you over the years s

let's bring in christopher voss now, he worked on the investigation of the twa flight 200 off of long island and now a managing director at insight security. christopher, i'm at a loss here. never seen anything like this. how about you? >> thanks for having me on. especially with the continuing conflicting information, chaotic streams of briefing coming out of there which confusions the situation. the few things we thought we could rule out based on the reported turn of the plane, even now that's in doubt. >> we are led to believe the plane continued to fly for an hour or so. i don't know why they think that now or maybe it's all old news. seems to me they don't know what they're doing. >> i think that's actually absolutely the case. they probably don't have people on the instrumentation, the radar instruments that may have known enough to know exactly what they were looking at which is why it's a good idea that the ntsb and the faa are sending experts to help them decode it. until we get that information, which is there and will be helpful, those will be the solid clues as to what ha

she lost her fiance on twa 800. heidi, i know you probably had quite a visceral reaction. connection to an aircraft disaster, and you are integrally connected with the loss of your fiance. how thank you react when you saw that mother today? >> it really brought me back to day one at the ramada inn in new york where we all met following the loss and everybody was trying to get information. hoping to get the confirmation that their loved ones were actually on board. there were a gamut of emotions in the room for days. there were press conferences, just like that. and people just hoping to get information to make some sense of what happened. and hearing her brings me right back to that. and so many of the people calling us for help from past air disasters all remember that. we were just hoping to get information and learn if they were actually on board. and at this point in time, i really think that the hope is starting to give way to a little bit of reality right now for people and i think it's been extremely difficult time. because as time passes, it gets harder to accept t

the older model aboard twa flight 800 could record only 18 indicators. investigators needed to reassemble the debris because the data gave only a partial view of what had happened on board at the time of the crash. >> yeah, essentially speed, altitude, so it was not that helpful in the determining what the probable cause was. >> the missing data recorder from flight 370 captured 82 separate indicators, significantly more information but will it be enough? >> if there's something conclusive on the 82 parameters the engines quit or there was a fire extinguisher, it will nail the accident down they may not have to reconstruct the entire aircraft. >> instead investigators could choose to recover a key piece in hope they reveal the rest of the puzzle. >> it was with alexander field reporting. an australian naval ship with a black box detector will be joining in the search in this new area and the search zone is almost 700 miles northeast of the area that has been canvassed for the past week or so the search was expanded after analysts said the boeing 777 may

incidents like the air france flight that disappeared over the atlantic a couple years ago and way back a twa00 after taking off from kennedy airport. >> so how sophisticated are our bomb detection systems today in the sense that there's almost an arms race. bomb makers try to figure out ways to get in through the systems. we make systems stronger and it keeps going up. are we keeping up with the bad guys? >> whenever there's a defense system, there's always loopholes or cracks or alternatives that can be used as we have witnessed in the case of the liquid bombers in london some years ago. later on with the underwear bomber who managed to take his bomb on board. so i wouldn't say that we have covered the, every possible alternative. but we certainly, they have covered most of it. and they're working very hard to cover more, and to keep it unknown to the bad guys as to where the loopholes are. >> all right. thank you so much. >> you're welcome. >>> turning now to the crisis in ukraine. armed pro-russian forces today reportedly seized control of another military airport as they continue to secu

to them believe it or not in along a drama, so many -- the pilot both showed amazing courage in the twa 847 hijacking, remarkable. i suppose we all admire this kind of thing, wonder if we would be up to it ourselves. these people proved themselves up to the level of events and extraordinary persons. the third category i found to look at it, the tried and true professional, the person trained to the kind of intervention that sometimes happens and it is not very often but they are involved. we saw someone shot at los angeles airport, not everybody in the business of security, public or private might be top of the wind. some might seem as airline passengers of little disengaged, some might be very good but only five years will they really know their grade, but otherwise we would meet in public life, many people involved in the security business to prove themselves very capable. they rise to the moment. maybe it takes you back too far but in 1988 remarkable location in new jersey is one of the things that a trooper named robert took notice of a driver as they are trained to do and pulled hi

joining me now cnn intelligence and security analyst and the fbi co-case agent for twa flight 800. i appreciate you both being with us. let's start off with this question because the former director of aviation safety for the ntsb said this did not look like a even if him because he said he didn't think the debris pieces of this size would have been floating. what do you all think about that, bob? >> i can't comment on that what would float but it doesn't surprise me that we're having a hard time identifying the pieces. satellite photography, chinese is very good but it takes days to analyze this stuff. even what you see from the air is completely different when you actually get to it, and they had to go through this stuff for three or four days and i think the chinese are doing the best they can. it may not be debris. but we'll have to wait and see. >> chris, what do you think? >> well, it's really hard to predict how a plane will break apart and what it will look like if that's in fact what happened to the plane. if there was some sort of catastrophic explosion while in the air,

he led the charge after several other plane crashes, including twa flight 800.with us, floyd. i think one of the questions a lot of people are wondering, given the fact that they don't have wreckage or debris in hand, is this premature and if it is, how would the lack of physical evidence affect litigation down the road. >> well, the lack of physical evidence definitely will affect litigation against the manufacturer, boeing, or component manufacturer, such as the engine manufacturer, rolls royce. it will not necessarily affect litigation against malaysia air, the air carrier. it is going to be responsible under the montreal convention, which governs claims arising from debts and international kar carriage by air. that convention provides for an intention payment of 113,000 special drawing rights which is an international monetary unit coming to about $176,000, plus additional damage, unless the airline can prove that either it cook all necessary measures to avoid the loss. i don't think malaysia air will be able >> so at a minimum, the montreal convention -- at

you suffered the appalling tragedy of your fiance who died on that infamous twa flight 800 in july 1996 play before i speak to you a clip from a heart rending interview last night from danica weeks and her husband paul is on the missing plane. i want to play what she said. >> that's the toughest part every day waking up and speaking -- looking on the news and seeing that there's nothing and there's no calls from malaysia to say we found something. god, every day it just seems like -- it's an eternity. >> heidi, you've been in that position. it was five weeks before you really knew what happened to your fiance. what kind of advice can you offer to people like danica weeks who are going through this absolute wrenching torment right now? >> well, after my loss, i founded aircraft casualty emotional services. i found out the most important thing was to be able to talk about it and listen during this process, because at this point, i was doing everything i could to keep him alive. so anyone that would listen and validate some of the thoughts i was having was really critical for me. i was luc

in 1996 twa flight 800 exploded in the sky near new york. debris scattered far and wide. investigators had to map out several debris fields. the cockpit sank, but the fuselage and wings scattered far because of how high up the plane was when it exploded. >> the initial pieces of floating debris just give you a clue where to start looking and listening for the pingers, the transmitting devices that make a ping sound that a sonar picks up that are on the recorders. >> reporter: in the case of the 1996 hijacked ethiopian plane when the pilot tried ditching the aircraft in shallow waters, it broke into three segments with the fuselage floating and the rear section submerged. in the case of the still-missing malaysia airline flight 370, investigators are trying to cover all their bases conducting searches by air, space and sea. you talk about how difficult it is to find a needle in a haystack, but in this case we don't even know where the haystack is, because there's not been any debris located yet, you are seeing the search area expand more and more. now covering 27,000 nauti

some people with theories or experts including former pilots, barry shift was a former twa pilot foryears. he thinks that the simplest explanation could be the right one. that the reprogramming, that the turn was the result of pilots trying to deal with some sort of problem on board. >> if you have a serious problem aboard a jetliner like a fire, one thing you want to do is get on the ground as soon as possible. and turning back is the first thing i would do. the most imperative thing is to take care of that fire. the last thing you're going to do is communicate unless you have the time to do it because no one on the ground can help you. now, i seriously doubt that anyone would try to land a jetliner in the ocean at night. without lights. the ocean is huge, and i simply don't think that they found it yet. i don't know that all the ocean has been looked at yet. i kind of doubt it. my guess is, and it's strictly a guess that they will find pieces of this airplane some place soon. it's very soon that they were working their -- offs to try to overcome a problem that may have been overcom

want to go now to james calstrom, former fbi assistant director who investigated twa flight 800. what is your reading of the situation? what does it mean when an airline says a plane is missing? does that mean they believe it has crashed? >> well, apparently they're not getting any transponder -- no response from the transponder on the plane. and the air traffic control is not seeing the aircraft on radar. of course, it's lucky -- it's a good thing that that path is over, it's not over water. i'm familiar with that vietnam area. but that's rough terrain. so if it lost its transresponder, that's the plane giving out a signal as to where i am, this is my altitude, this is my heading, obviously that's been lost somehow. the communications with the company itself that owns the aircraft has apparently been lost. and i'm sure there's radars there over vietnam that would have seen it drop off the radar. and that's going to give them a pretty good idea where the plane is. >> the malaysia airlines v.p. of operations control told anderson cooper show a little while ago at the moment we hav

>> you know, in my experience and mine is based on twa-800, but?experience that is one of the main priorities is to bring back the loved ones. we looked for the black box and the next is to bring back the loved ones. >> now they are saying this is not a rescue effort. it's a recovery effort. that causes a lot of hope for that happening. >> yes. when i say their loved ones, i meant to bring the loved ones back to bury. it's a recovery operation. and even with this aircraft, even if this depth of water we bring in a r.o.v., a remote operated vehicle. i believe they did the same thing in the air france operation and they recovered the bodies as well to bring back to these families to help them recover from this. they would have the same capability with the remote operated vehicles at this depth of water also. >> arthur, rachel says if i had a family member on board i would demand they find something in the ocean. >> these people want concrete evidence. they want a piece of the wreckage. but i have to go back, you know, either if the malaysian governme

oh what a relief it is >>> back with me now is heidi snow who lost her fiance in the crash of twa 800victims of family victims can get help? how can these families get the proper support? >> so at access, we have 250 grief mentors who all lost loved ones in air disasters. we have a call line and website where people can request care and will be partnered up with somebody else with experience. we match mothers to mothers, spouses to spouses. for example, in danica's case, we have people who lost spouses who have young children who would benefit from talking to somebody that's been there. >> great. heidi snow, thank you very much. anything you want to add very quickly? sorry. we've got to leave it there. i lost contact with you. we're going to go now to "chicagoland," which starts right now. >>> cnn's original series "chicagoland" is proudly presented by -- >>> previously on "chicagoland" -- >> chicago is closing 50 schools. >> i am comfortable with what i'm doing. >> we are not going down without a fight! >> just a pounding and pounding and pounding. >> this is the last stop for 98% of

not only twa 800 but the egyptair crash which was pilot suicide. how did you determine that, and what was your reaction when you came to that conclusion? >> well, as an investigator, aircraft issues and terrorism issues are something that i've always looked into. but with the twa 800, for quite a long period we looked at it as a terrorism. but then it came about thought was clearly just an accident and a crash. the egyptair, it was a pilot suicide. but to this day the pilot's family will not concede that it was pilot suicide. but that was from the recording from the pilot's recordings that were going back and forth. we were able to figure out that this was -- some statements that he was making indicated that he was looking to end his life. plus looking into some of the other conversations in the cockpit that there were differences about whether to try to save the plane or take it down. so that led us to believe thought was clearly pilot suicide. >> if only we had that information. is that kind of information would show up on a black box if it's eve

after she lost her fe fiancee, n twa flight, heartbreaking on getting the news from the plaishiamalasian authorities. can you talk us through the stages of emotional grief happening here? >> i remember all too well-being we were all gathered at the ramada inn in new york city, getting information, wanting information. and waiting and hoping to get some confirmation that the loved ones of our remains were found. in this case, they do not actually have any remains of the plane, and they don't have the remains of their loved ones. what we're finding is people are still going back and forth and fluctuating from hope there is a possibility that they survived then going back the next hour to the reality that they truly could be gone at this point. >> i did see some relatives going on the air already talking about you know, they had so much doubt, there had been so many conflicting reports over the last couple of weeks that really must add to that feeling that how can i believe this to be true? >> right, exactly. and i believe that until there's tangible evidence, like some piece of the plane o

and united states after the twa flight 800 that crashed off long island, congress passed a law calledhere it let the ntsb completely relate to families in such a different way from day one the malaysians, maybe they are not used to running an investigation. the families have been put back and forth with theory after theory and false hope after false hope. in this country it's done quite differently. >> how is it done this this country in terms of the ntsb reaching out to families immediately? >> after pan-am 103, they started to get organized and after the value jet in '96 and twa 800 in july of 1996, the families themself came to the government and said we demand to know what's going on. we cannot be treated this way. we want to be at the site and want the government to take us to the crash site. we feel that's important for us to be there. it's a seat change, you don't have the kind of situation you've seen for the last 17 days in malaise ya. are you satisfied that the trajectory hints towards the southern indian ocean that the plane would have run out of fuel and that barring some

it was her fate to be the lead stewardess on twa 847, on that flight. so shiite thugs had attacked the plane, taken people hostage. they were working a kind of perverse psychological approach to break down the passengers, whip saw everybody into confusion and submission. she was fright ped, actually, who wouldn't be, but gradually her composure returned, and she began thinking about what she could do to moderate this impossible situation. so, for example, it emerged that she spoke german, and some of the hijackers did as well, and that became the only common language, actually, that all the parties had x. she sewer screened -- intervened sometimes psychologically, sometimes physically. they once asked her to sing german songs to her -- to them, believe it or not, in the long, long drama of this hijacking, and she did so. very strange. she and the pilot, john tesdrake, both showed amazing courage in the twa 847 hijacking. remarkable. i suppose we all admire this kind of thing, we wonder or whether we'd ever be up to it ourselves. these people on the day

after twa flight 800 went down in july 1996, just 12 minutes after takeoff from new york's jfk airporthe plane's black boxes were recovered, but they offered little. >> both the voice recorder and the data recorder terminated their operation within a nano second of each other. when the explosion took place. >> reporter: still, despite all the conspiracy theories, investigators say they figured out an explosion in the fuel tank caused the crash, and shut down the recorders. >> get ahold of american 77, by chance? >> reporter: on 9/11, 64 people died on board american airlines flight 77, when it slammed into the pentagon. fire crews spent days trying to put out the flames. the two black boxes were found in the wreckage, but the cockpit voice recorder was too charred to offer anything of value. >> it flew in with such force, and the fire was so intense, that nothing could have survived that impact. >> reporter: if the black boxes are ever recovered from malaysia airlines flight 370, investigators still may have questions. the cockpit voice recorder starts recording over itself after two h

reporter: but with depths of two to three miles, recovering then reassembling like the ntsb did with twa-800 may not be possible. meanwhile, u.s. federal agents looking at the simulator and computer had drives taken from the pilot and co-pilot are nearly done with their work. >> i have teams working literally around the clock to try and exploit that. i expect it to be done fairly shortly within a day or two. >> reporter: a u.s. official tells nbc news the search has turned up nothing that would shed any light on what happened to the plane. meanwhile, search teams are just now heading back out thursday morning in australia. but they don't have much time. another storm is only a day away, brian. >> unbelievable. tom costello in our d.c. newsroom tonight. tom, thanks. >>> and overseas tonight with continuing tensions over ukraine as the backdrop, president obama delivered a powerful message to america's nato allies today. spoke in brussels. he says the u.s. will never waiver in defending them against aggression from russia. he denounced their brute force aggression and reminded europe of al