the only twhaun occurred to me frankly as i was thinking about that because there are some perverse incentives in the water system we are looking at lown impact development of the water system. we do take some account of how much hard escape as people opposed to landscape. we might be able to do more of that that you can measure how much hard escape a lot has, the roof, sidewalk, patios, we know how much hard escape someone has. to convert that to basically some form of land use that will absorb water, that would reduce our cost ultimately and we can reflect that. that is one example that came to mind. hopefully there are others as well. those are money issues that i hope you can consider. >> thank you. >> commissioner vietor? >> i'm concerned about the fee conservation issue. the report of november 2012 on storm water fees and really laid out a fact forward that i thought was compelling. i think it's important to look at that. the long range 2014-cycle as an introduction to this concept and addresses this question and i pretty much want to echo and my concern about the conservation approach a