u. k and the u. k. and provides them to ukraine. this is an strategic form policy and this is a pity. yeah. so talk a little bit about germany's role here, but me when i want to come to you when you're looking at arms deliveries from europe for ukraine. i mean, who do you point a finger out here who is to blame and who is really hitting the brakes on sending additional ammunition and supplies to ukraine? well, you have um, you have a public this course which is changing because it's no longer prime. this of hungry saying he was not that of are any weapons. it's also now i'm just on my own countries like you have a bunch pizza who came famously who was selected. so with the saying, no, no, no single. that's more why. and in fact, his government is still delivering is just not from the arguments from the army. we're obviously they're empty of to the previous government that everything they could, but they are contracts the private context running. there is also a lot of flows go through 32. it's like, you know, from germany and others. and the prominence defeats it was at the chancellor yesterday talking with the off shows about new competition contracts between the 2 arm i'm an industry so you have a public this course you have a you have also society in my own country. part of it is really tired from this war in neighboring country and would like to see some signs that, that, that, that politicians are trying to encourage some kind of a ceasefire. so i think the prime minister of its own is a way of that. he's looking at pools, he needs to say one thing, but then in fact, quietly, he's doing something else. if you look at the eastern plank of nato, you have really different approaches even to the restaurant that down to about 2 or 3 years. not every sort of politically lead in countries there, things that they are, they can be testing by don't, you know, everybody's pulling the baltic countries the so some of these countries including i would go get into this kemp. i think the okay, maybe we can because we can sit it out and actually we looked at them directly to us because we were always friendly. that's fascinating, isn't it? i mean, looking at the case of slovak and rubber feet. so because you've got a neighboring country, i'm making big claims about wanting it to stop arms deliveries to ukraine. but then as you say, he seems to have changed his tone recently. can you explain for us a little bit more uh, what is going on there and, and why you see these differences between different eastern countries regarding their attitude toward rush and the word ukraine. you have different history. you have the different the societies. so yes, if 60 percent of society, my own country wants something different, of course on government, then then these new leaders providing while, i mean what's interesting is he met the kindly prime minister to me how they knew, hold on before coming to berlin. they agreed 3 infrastructure projects, things like railway connection folk. you have to cost you to airports so that people from gift can use the airport to fly out. and they will meet every 2 months with their ministers to really sort of put this a robust cooperation. it's such a big contrast with big federal bund hungry yet the public line overall, the street. so he's basically no more, no more web on support change. of course, it's not really a change of course, but it's very different political communication about it looks like a quick look also at western support here. um, because looking for the us, i mean there's even potentially more bad news for ukraine here. terry. um, you know, the elephants in the room, the possible and, and not unlikely election of donald trump as the next president of the united states. and he has both said that he could head into the war and ukraine in a day if he comes to power. is this just a typical trump bravado or, or is there something concrete to his plan? what could you create, expect, claire, i'm going to be honest. i don't spend a lot of time looking at donald trump's suppose a piece plans for ukraine when i am so busy looking at, you know, munition deliveries to the soldiers who are fighting on the ground. forgive me for that, but i will point out the president zalinski said, hey donald trump, you've got a plan, a real plan, come on over and show it to us. so i think president zalinski a, you know, is, is masterful of his communications as well. and sort of took the lead on that, but i will point out that i wouldn't say any nato ally has confidence in a trump plan and, and really wouldn't like to, to think that there's, uh, you know, a possibility that this is going to be something there us to sign on to, i'm standing in a city where i also covered the trunk, put in summit in 2018, and that is something no one would like to see a repeat of the relationship between trump and putting is something that worries nato allies european union partners every single day and you said, you know, is the elephant in the room. but i can't tell you how many conversations i have already had about people's worries that, that donald trump, that could be coming back as president of the united states. and what that will mean for nato, and it's unity. i'm sorry, thank you so much for that. um, you know, as we've heard and need a really wants to deter russia from pursuing any of his other imperial visions. and that is one of the reasons that we've been seeing the biggest nato exercise in decades. i'd like to take a closer look at steadfast defender. it's the largest military drill since the end of the cold war. 90000 soldiers from 31 nations will undergo 4 months of emergency training to prepare for the scenario. a freshman attack on the needle ally this seems more probable now than it has been in the last 30 years. russia's invasion of ukraine has presented nato with new challenges, militarily, politically, and ideologically support for your credit is still trying to get the support to credit is investment. so all the security on there for allies. how to provide this unprecedented support and all way around thinking production the needle wants to strengthen its air defense by placing an order worth billions allied nations plan to purchase up to 1000 patriot missiles. nato was upgrading with more soldiers, weapons in new members, including finland and soon sweden is the alliance prepared for an emergency. so is nato prepared for a worst case scenario mark is. i wanna 1st look at how likely this is that we would see a russian attack on a needle member state, and then we can turn to nato's preparedness in such an event. what do you think? how realistic is it that russia would try to attack a member of nato? i think nobody knows what's in vladimir putting his mind, so i wouldn't dare to speculate about it. but i think for the next couple of years, we had quite save the military capabilities of ross. i have been severely diminished in due grain. we see some determinations and to replace them in personnel times, but also in military capabilities. and but i think ready, mean, put in knows the difference between keys and tell him as a sonya is involved in a door to a big one example. and i think he has to realize then for that, for the serious repercussions. for, for him, i mean, oh, sorry to jump in, i don't know. i'm serious with them. you want agrees with that. okay. go ahead. i think we slipped through before the worst activity when we slept through the fact that this is different, our show different put in the if you remember his conditions before the war started . well, he wanted you want to throw all back nato to 1990. i paid the so trigger public, poland hungry, not hosting. so caused me to time for center. this is crazy because it means that we kind of exclude that when you crane war ends, he will poke to the business. and the weakest point that i think the weakest points about the countries. in fact, i talked to people from the new government anymore. so last week and they're, they're um, and that is that in 2 to 3 years. if the warrants next year 2 to 3 years later, we kind of exclude that they will be small incidence into both to countries where the rush i will try to see and learn, you know, how they told you. they react maybe to head bumping and think there's a different and now the dimensions we sometimes overlook, which is the confrontation which is not mended. henry, the holy bit, hold pan of this information, sidebar espionage, and the stablish things we see more involved this and this, this is quite an important part of the man. so the western russian conflict, and if you would ask me, i would bet more on these deputies, they is the operators now for off on at the premier, for, for new, for us and ball. and the boy lived waiting across the board that expect a full blown military confrontation in the us to come. i suppose we will have to wait and see no one will know for sure until then a terry, let's look then at, you know, if this were to happen, how prepared nato would be. and do you think that focusing on white or native preparedness, looking at the possible attack of one of its members date, is actually detracting and taking away from its efforts to support ukraine as well. let me just pick up on that, comments about the presumption that russia will poke at the finish russian border because that's one of the things i'm here reporting on. and that is very much what they think was happening with the russia. you know, facilitating migrants coming to the border and pushing them over. they think russia wanted to see how resilience finland could be right now and see if there was any, you know, sort of changing the armor of this new nato ally of the european union. and they have not found that to be effective, so, so much at the moment, but it doesn't mean they won't try somewhere else. and yeah, sure, i mean, nato will say to the ukraine's constant heartbreak that it's, his job is to protect every inch of nato territory. so when, when it comes to it, i mean, that's really what they're doing here is making sure that their own territory is not vulnerable to any kind of, of russian invasion, including the hybrid warfare tactics that were mentioned here. so it does take some attention away from ukraine, but i mean, nato is unapologetic about the fact that that's why it exist. it would love to help push russia out of ukraine. if it doesn't mean any, you know, nato allies to boots on the ground. if, if allies can, you know, maintain their own self defense with what they sent to ukraine, but in the end, nato is really here to protect itself, and that's what steadfast defender is about. and marcus, your view is nato leaving ukraine hanging here as it looks, a potential for us elsewhere. i would agree, i mean, we have the nato summit as you, um and, and, and ukraine was denied for membership. and the alternative would have been or has been sole goal, not security guarantees about security agreements with in the 7 states. and these have limits days. and as far as i can see, there's not months in progress in this the bates and in this agreement. and i think at the end of the day, i think all the western governments have to raise and have have to ask themselves in grants and what they're going to do. do different ukraine, not only now, but also in 5 to 10 years. and i think there's lots to improve, we're going to have to leave it there. thank you so much to our audience for watching into my fantastic guests for your insights and analysis. we really appreciate your time today. you're watching at home and you enjoyed the show. let us know if you're watching on youtube, you can drop us a comments. i am clear, richardson in berlin, and i am so grateful you can take the time the next time the the into the conflicts own with sim sebastian. i guess this week is electric considering co ukrainian. m. p angelica for the parliamentary assembly council of your research about them for a year ago. gunter ranko had post price because the landscape and reservations about him for the still believe this president will lead you crying to victory conflict. in 30 minutes on the w to the point. strong opinions. international perspective, nato is running it's of biggest military drills, rehearsing. how it would respond to a russian attack, what, as the alliance aims to determine, can it also keep up with support for you, frank? turn us this week on to the point. to the point in 90 minutes on d. w, the world in progress. a top calls to everyone who wants to know more about the topics that concern us about these stories beyond the headline. with fact inside in depth interviews and see the world in progress. so you don't think and do the same way you expect and more different things from life than your parents. i just want to pursue what sets my thought aside or you think your kid is 2 different, risky, irresponsible, reasonable stopping port in those nonsense? i want my son to the doctor, joe, in the clubs. it's time to, to get from your generation with a sleep us. i'm them. when generation as class this week on the dw says kind of fun, it feels like therapy, the . this is the, the use of live from the live russia and ukraine. trade accusations of a plane crash which kill doesn't pump prison as a full muscle calls the meeting of the un security council. to discuss this claim that keep shot down the transport aircraft, tulsa, coming up. thirty's in guys, us a is there. any fire is killed at least 20 people queuing for food 8 the day after a separate attack on a u. n. facility. israel also have hundreds of people sheltering that must lead for their own state. the .