a professor of uc irvine, and joel brenner is inspector and author of the book "america, the vulnerablehose who have been hacked and those who have been hacked but don't know it yet. is it as pervasive as that? >> pretty much. if that's an exaggeration it's not an exaggeration by far. the penetration of western businesses in general is astounding. >> it's so interesting to me, because we have all of the focus right now on the government watching, you know, the surveillance programs, and it's so much in the spotlight, and really what you have every single day are foreign entities and foreign server farms outside of shanghai, looking to america's biggest corporate secrets and that's something that could be damaging to the american economy. >> well, it can. i mean, we are seeing a dramatic shift of intellectual property from west to east. what people tend not to understand is that businesses and governments create store and transmit information on the same porous internet that you and i use in our personal relations. secrecy from privacy are pretty much the same thing but they are just ass