in in adolescence about jumping through the next hoop, and then second darely, unlike what you udescribed at georgetown, many colleges -- and i think many especially elite colleges -- don't do anything to disrupt the momentum of the hoop jumping. i think they think that because our kids are so smart, and of cures they must be smart because their s.a.t. scores are high, must be smart because we let them in. then we don't need to do any of that work of getting them to be reflective about their education. they take it for granted and that's a huge mistake. >> host: i agree. i think that is value added. we have to do that. we have to force them into that kind of a thought process. that kind of reflection that kind of conversation with others, about what is the meaning of all this. i think it's the foundational question, and we have to go back to it again and again. it's not always easy and there are also diffused in their interests, doing many, many things. internships and they're volunteering and they're taking five courses and they're in three groups and head two of the groups, and this is