high since twenty fourteen when there have been dozens of attacks recorded by ukrainian nationalists on moscow aligned orthodox churches in ukraine who are seen as kremlin stooges or any news of ukraine conflict also possible over property the moscow backed churches own about twelve thousand parishes in the country the ukrainian church is only about half that number so with ownership of churches revenue streams and followers millions of followers involved is certainly going to have an impact on those many orthodox followers throughout eastern europe ok many thanks for bringing us that today and with this story don't hold kids. thanks you guys thing that is that homework will join me in just over half an hour's time up about with the latest news headlines and updates on our top stories. oh a. good look at the two sleazeball. i built for sunday and this is their. role going to say boy i was left with the mustard so it will be listening with a. lot of. us now ok i. lift so. let me see that i got to go in that deal but you also look at the money on your body it's to blow its top shows just the leafs old place you

the splits between the ukrainian and russian orthodox churches could soon become official my colleague neil harvey discussed the situation with correspondent daniel hawkins. well religious scandals around churches in ukraine to many might seem irrelevant say historic theological debate but actually carries a lot more meaning to orthodox believers need to look at the basics first the eastern orthodox church is made up of fifteen different churches each of which one has autonomy in religious language that is called autocephaly meaning church has its own self governance independence and jurisdiction now the russian orthodox church for centuries has had rule over the key of orthodox church that's been the case since about the seventeenth century it's the only officially recognized congregation of all of the doxy in ukraine on the other hand no there have been political and religious factions in the country which a very long time pushed for a independent ukrainian orthodox to be established indeed the president of ukraine petro poroshenko has been a supporter of this he's implied that the c

constant novel leads us on with various promises since most likely it's statements about the ukrainian orthodox church are motivated by something more than just spiritual goals. a chairman for the russian orthodox church has also reacted saying it's the third time constantinople is talked about granting autonomous powers for national churches but there's still no conclusion in starlight he also stressed the separation is something orthodox believe it don't actually want anyway you know constantinople overturned a centuries old acts of union to sever ties between kiev the moscow then both the russian and ukrainian churches responded in turn to cut away from constantinople it's complicated he got the thoughts of a professor of church history and what's really happening in ukraine in goldman is really in a way trying to force canonical bishops uncanonical church to participation in this quote unquote council of unification so offered of this procedure for series of structures or was to threaten with confiscation of churches or monasteries and they started to pull discipline into life with which ar

constant novel leads us on with various promises since most likely it's statements about the ukrainian orthodox church are motivated by something more than just spiritual goals. and chairman for the russian orthodox church has also reacted saying it is the third time constantinople has talked about granting autonomous powers for national churches but there is still no clues in sight also stressed that separation is something orthodox believers do not actually want on october constantinople overturned a centuries old act of union to sever ties between kiev and moscow then both of the russian and ukrainian churches responded in turn to cut away from constantinople or to you got the thoughts of a professor of church history. you create him go and is really you know like trying to force the no nickel bishops on canonical church to participation in various quote unquote. unification so paul farhi of this procedure for a series of structures here was to threaten with confiscation of churches and monasteries and they started to pull this plan into life with which i. always chose one of the most respec

constant noble leads us on with various promises since most likely it's statements about the ukrainian orthodox church are motivated by something more than just spiritual goals well the chairman for the russian orthodox church has also reacted saying it is the third time constantinople has talked about granting a thomas powers for national churches but still no conclusion in sight he also stressed the separation is something orthodox believers don't actually want the breakaway crisis started last month when ukraine started pushing for its independence constantinople then overturned a centuries old act of the union to sever ties between the churches in kiev and moscow know both the russian and ukrainian churches responded in turn to cut away from constantinople i spoke to a professor of church history who believes the government is forcing the church to separate ukrainian go and is really really trying to force the new nickel bishops uncanonical church to produce patient members quote unquote council unification so off mark of this pursuit of bursaries or structures or was to threaten with confi

ukraine because apart from that official orthodox church in kiev there are also two other separate churches these are the key of patriarchates and the ukrainian autocephalous orthodox church their views broke away from the main church and ninety's when ukraine became independent and would not recognize the fish only up until very recently now what's happened is the patriarch of constantinople which is considered the most important church the head of all churches in orthodoxy has taken steps to recognize their independence and their autonomy from the king of church a decision that is very much angered the moscow patriarchate to say the least. the process of granting autocephaly is artificial imposed from outside does not reflect internal ecclesiastical necessity will not bring real church unity will deepen division and intensify conflicts among the people of ukraine under these conditions the participation of the pesky pate clergy and laity of the you see in these process is is considered impossible. was the reaction of the russian orthodox church being what it's for going to total breakdown between the russian church and the concerned local c

moscow now is this really working out for russia when you saw what happened a few weeks ago with ukrainian orthodox church for example they're demanding independence from the russian orthodox church precisely because the ukrainian people are needed because of russia's invasion of ukraine and killing ukrainians so that they've lost the goodwill of ukrainian people which have been there for centuries so it's a major loss for russia really do you see any role for a military response in this i don't see any any desire by anybody to fight against russia to retake this territory the ukrainians cannot and should not do that there is no desire in the west to do that but what we need to do is to deter further russian advances as being too costly and to you know useless for them in order to create the conditions for a negotiation to reestablish peace and restore the territory reducing do you realistically expect the terrorists there's a big relief to be stopped if you talk about deterring russia from further expansion. my reading of the situation is that once russia has that bit of ukraine it will be happy t

i'm with a priest of the ukrainian orthodox church.olai is taking me to steal a look at the church that was his for decades. and this is your church of almost a0 years? like many priests here, father nikolai is part of the moscow patriarchate — a branch of the orthodox church with historic ties to russia. and that has turned him into an outcast in his own community, by those who want those ties cut. is this where you raised your children? nikolai's church and home have been taken over by a growing ukrainian 0rthodox church — the kyiv patriarchate. how do you feel when you see it now? for decades, the kyiv patriarchate has been in the shadow of the more powerful moscow patriarchate. but now it is on the brink of recognition by most of the global 0rthodox community, led by the patriarch of constantinople, breaking over three centuries of spiritual domination here by russia. driven by popular anger at the russian orthodox church's support of vladimir putin and his military intervention in ukraine. but for many of the 12,000 churches here

constant noble leads us on with various promises since most likely it's statements about the ukrainian orthodox church are motivated by something more than just spiritual goals. well the chairman for the russian orthodox church has also reacted saying it's the third time constantinople has talked about giving up thomas powers for national churches but still there is no conclusion in the site he also stressed that separation is something orthodox believers don't actually want well the breakaway crisis started last month when ukraine began pushing for its independence constantinople then overturned a centuries old act of union to sever ties between key of moscow both the russian and ukrainian churches then responded in turn to cut away from constantinople well to get a little bit more on this story we cross live telling sundered to work in a professor of church history based in moscow welcome to the program i suppose firstly in layman terms what does this separation mean and how will it work. between between canonical or who church. is magic's is that is that what you mean exactly. there was a r

from any sort of head patriarch now the russian orthodox church has for many years had jurisdiction over here they've had a joint church called the ukrainian all through moscow patriarchate and that's the only officially recognized orthodox church in ukraine but there are factions in the country political. religious have long been pushing for an independent ukrainian shirts indeed president of petro poroshenko of ukraine has been a supporter of that stating this is as important to the country as joining the e.u. and nato. certainly is the most important event from the same serious as our aspiration to join the u.n. nato the association agreement a visa free regime with the e.u. withdrawal from the c.i.s. rejection of the deceptive treaty and friendship with russia etc all this is the basis of our own way of development development of ukraine to talk about divorces so there's going to be a mess you want a simple situation you guys were i mean apart from this main church which is recognized in ukraine there are also two other churches now these broke away from the main search in the ninety's when ukraine go to its independence that is the ke

does this have anything to do with the split between the ukrainian and russian russian orthodox churches is does that come into this this at all. yes of course because it's the sort of jewel in the crown in the collapse of russian soft power russian influence in ukraine. the whole problem that russia has today is that russian policies towards ukraine russian aggression towards ukraine has undermined that's of power it's rebounded to back against putin and so for example today our next year's elections no progress in candor that could can win and even get to the second round and no progress from party can win a majority in the ukrainian parliament why because sixteen percent of ukrainian voters twenty seven election districts are under russian occupation in the dumb basque and crimea that's putting one's fault so putin's own own policies towards ukraine are preventing what he would like to happen in ukraine which is pro russian people. coming back to power so he's very frustrated with the way ukraine is going to play with poroshenko was pretty frank was initiating the including of nato an

there's a crisis with the ukrainian church, the orthodox church succeeding from the overlord -- >> whichs a blow to putin. >> it's a huge blow, but it also further divides ukraine and russia. a lot of things that we're ignoring are building to a head. does that mean putin is going to get a green light from trump to invade tomorrow? no. not necessarily. but we need to pay attention. >> but to the idea of a green light, if you're a world leader and looking at how the u.s. is responding to things, you look at how president trump has responded to the murder of this journalist, jamal khashoggi, and how continually no matter what the cia says, you have john bolton saying look, i didn't listen to the tape. i don't speak arabic. why would i listen to a tape of somebody being killed? >> that infuriated me. you don't want to listen to that tape? i don't speak arabic either, but i'll tell you if you listen to a tape of somebody being tortured to death, you can figure out a couple of things. the screams are universal. the gloating tone of the torture is universal. and these people are cowards for no

does this have anything to do with the split between the ukrainian and russian russian orthodox churches is does that come into this this at all. yes of course because it's the sort of jewel in the crown in the collapse of russian soft power russian influence in ukraine. the whole problem that russia has today is that russian policies towards ukraine russian aggression towards ukraine has undermined that's of power it's rebounded to back against putin and so for example today our next year's elections no progress in candor that could can win and even get to the second round and no progress report he can win a majority in the ukrainian parliament why because sixteen percent of ukrainian voters twenty seven election districts are under russian occupation in the dumb bastard and crimea that's putting one's fault so putin's own own policies towards ukraine are preventing what he would like to happen in ukraine which is pro russian people. coming back to power so he's very frustrated with the way ukraine is going to play with poroshenko was pretty frank was initiating the including of nato an

does this have anything to do with the split between the ukrainian and russian russian orthodox churches is does that come into this this is a tool. yes of course because it's the sort of jewel in the crown in the collapse of russian soft power russian influence in ukraine. the whole problem that russia has today is that russian policies towards ukraine russian aggression towards ukraine has undermined that of power it's rebounded to back against putin and so for example today our next year's elections no progress in candor that could can win and even get to the second round and no progress from party can win a majority in the ukrainian parliament why because sixteen percent of ukrainian voters twenty seven election districts are under russian occupation in the dumb bastard and crimea that's putting means fault so putin's own own policies towards ukraine are preventing what he would like to happen in ukraine which is pro russian people. coming back to power so he's very frustrated with the way ukraine is going to play with poroshenko was perfect was initiating the including of nato and e

thousands of ukrainian nationalists marched the streets of the capital, proof for moscow of a rising tolerance here. in russia, the orthodoxall ties with the world 0rthodox community, for plans to recognise an independent ukrainian church. i asked the 89—year—old head of the kiev patriarchate, filaret, whether the goal of independence was creating more tension in an already divided country. and for filaret, it is the war in the east of ukraine that has brought about the possibility. the military chaplain, father sergei, is back in kiev. he has something special to show me, on a wall commemorating the lives of 3800 ukrainian soldiers who have died in action since 2014. when you hear stories like that and see these images of 3800 men, did you ever think relations with russia could be repaired? hard steps will need to be taken for all ukraine to move on from a harrowing conflict with its closest neighbour. the authorities seem determined that a new church will be part of thatjourney — whether they take the whole of this divided country with them or not. hello there. the weekend so far has brought a real mix of weather. dry fo

patchwork in constantinople to grant independent economic status to what had been the ukrainian part of the russian orthodoxview the russian civilization extends beyond russians borders -- russia's borders. the second issue is the upcoming presidential elections in the ukraine next march. they would love to encourage the hasident to do what he attempted to do, to hand them an excuse to declare martial law, to postpone elections, putting people on the street and giving who is to his opponent talking about a peace plan and compromise with russia. all of this plays into that. francine: let me jump in. would putinely, why do this a week before the g20? russia has been demonstrating consistently that they are willing to be defensive in their interest. they do not care what we think. one of their most seasoned deputy ministers said, you regard us as an adversary. why should we care what you think? what they want us to understand is that russia is important. you cannot isolate russia, ignore russia. the timing makes perfect sense. tom: we are going to get you back in the coming days. he is at chatham house. we're

ukrainian churches who will perhaps be independent once they unite control about half that number so with ownership of churches with income revenue with followers seventy percent of ukraine being orthodox followers of course this carries a lot of symbolism of people and it's very likely to carry on causing a bit of confusion and division it complicated story thanks so much for helping to explain it to us many thanks daniel who can sit with me in the studio. and church history professor alexander dvorkin says ukraine's moves in his appeal will only make the country's divisions worse. operator worth all of you will never allow. it to exist whatever this new church will be the world will not be used for turkey and i still have my doubts that it will be full of fully independent polluter so full of us very soon there will be discrimination of those believers that would want to stay with the canonical church will increase of course they will try to take our property away from them i mean the church property it will increase also all the all the tensions and this is a way to resolve the divisions of the society to increase all the disagreements and . it will hardly pray. i think staying with