trump fears ult michelle. if society feels like it's on the right track, if we don't regard ourselves as being torn apart, someone like trump is implausible. he is only plausible when i was talking to people and researching this book, it's clear that time and time and time again, trump only becomes plausible when we have already been predisposed to view other people as dangerous. that's an extraordinary moment. the president, the most powerful man on earth would feed and thrive off of fears. denigrate other people and would demagogue his way to power. it's a very sad moment we are in. >> i'm struck by your phraseology of trump being afraid of optimism. i see how that works politically for him, but that runs counter to what he has done as a businessman. you can't be in business and be afraid of success. yet he flipped that and made it work for him politically. >> trump's career as a politician is fascinating. i say that with no liking of the man. i don't like anything he has done. he has realized if you make ou