planning divorce for the unbaptized. >> and this is important because it illustrates in your book, if i understand your premise, that the change really isn't blueprinting. it sort of occurs. it is just a response based on people who see current problems. sometimes the king -- sometimes the change occurs through the leadership of the church, sometimes it occurs through the membership of the church. it's not necessarily top to bottom. it could work the other way. but in the case of the development of our marriage, it has been the work of people trained in law finding a rather large. in which it is permissible, according to cap with teaching. the dissolved of an existing marriage in order to promote the spiritual welfare of someone who wants to contract a new marriage with a catholic. >> i must say that part of this in the 2000-year old history of the catholic church and sometimes it gets twisted on me be the industry. once things have been known for so many centuries, someone has to find a way to change that. >> precedence is, in the end, not decisive. >> let's talk then about slavery.

their children are unbaptized; they're getting married without marriage ceremonies. and there is a thirst for religion. and you have these often unskilled--i shouldn't say unskilled--uneducated preachers; they do have a skill and a talent and a calling to preach. but you have them going into the frontier and preaching and creating converts and building new churches. so religiously for these--at this time, you have a proliferation of sects. they finally pull back and don't maintain the distinction between church and sect and call them all denominations. c-span: as you know, a quarter of the population today is catholic, and about six million of the population are jewish. when did the jews and the catholics come to the united states? >> guest: there--there--the first jewish congregation came in the 17th century, actually. it came from brazil to new york city but that population--the jewish population, i mean, was very small. there's several people in my cohort who are jewish, but it's very small. and that population, the real jewish immigration doesn't come till the en